McGrath/Tendulkar or Imran/Kallis

[subshakerz]

So who are your openers? Assuming its Hobbs and one of Sutcliffe/Hutton/Gavaskar they’d score 250 odd - are you going to sacrifice that quality for faster scoring?

Openers are expected to score slower. but the middle order with Viv, Sachin, Sobers and Gilly there will be acceleration.

 

[Coronis]

Openers are expected to score slower. but the middle order with Viv, Sachin, Sobers and Gilly there will be acceleration.

Sachin and Sobers would only score 270 odd during a day, your story is unraveling mate.

 

[subshakerz]

Sachin and Sobers would only score 270 odd during a day, your story is unraveling mate.

What was Sobers SR?

And both of those could accelerate when they needed to, unlike Kallis.

 

[Coronis]

What was Sobers SR?

And both of those could accelerate when they needed to, unlike Kallis.

52. Kallis could accelerate when he needed to. And he did so, on multiple occasions.

Shockingly its perfectly fine to have both defensive and aggressive batsmen on a team which you seem to acknowledge with regards to the openers but not with Kallis.

 

[subshakerz]

52. Kallis could accelerate when he needed to. And he did so, on multiple occasions.

Shockingly its perfectly fine to have both defensive and aggressive batsmen on a team which you seem to acknowledge with regards to the openers but not with Kallis.

Towards the end of his career. Otherwise was in robomode.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

So that eliminates Sobers, Tendulkar, Smith, Hobbs, Hutton, Sutcliffe, Gavaskar, Dravid, Waugh, Border, Sangakkara, Kallis, Headley, Hammond, Barrington, Chappell, Walcott, Younis and Compton. Hell, even de Villiers.

Short list of players you have left.

Bunch of mugs compared with Zak Crawley...

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Sachin+ Imran

 

[kyear2]

If trades were a thing in cricket

I think at no point (other than the two year decline) would India have traded Tendulkar for Kallis; or Australia, Ponting for Kallis

and certainly at no point would Australia have traded Mcgrath for Imran

Inner circle ATG specialists are very rare and have value beyond what can appear in hindsight as a superficial difference in average

This I fully agree with.

Those top 3 or 5 pacers and top group after Bradman had that little extra something that transcended the difference in average.

 

[subshakerz]

This I fully agree with.

Those top 3 or 5 pacers and top group after Bradman had that little extra something that transcended the difference in average.

Imran is close to McGrath though. It's like replacing him with Wasim or Ambrose and getting a batsman in the process. Australia would have definitely considered that especially for that especially in the SC.

 

[TheJediBrah]

This I fully agree with.

Those top 3 or 5 pacers and top group after Bradman had that little extra something that transcended the difference in average.

You can really tell in this thread who understands cricket and who just looks at numbers on a screen

 

[kyear2]

Imran is close to McGrath though. It's like replacing him with Wasim or Ambrose and getting a batsman in the process. Australia would have definitely considered that especially for that especially in the SC.

Top 3 pacers (in my personal order)
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee

Separates themselves from the rest, no holes. But also the ability, especially the top 2 to adapt to conditions and even excel in unfavorable ones. Marshall having the pace, skill set and adaptability to flourish everywhere from shocking India in '83 emerging as the fastest bowler in the world to swing in Australia in '84 to his reduced run and cutters in '88 / '89

Steyn
Ambrose

Records not as complete but supreme match winning ability.

Don't see Australia or WI taking anyone over those two guys and the ability they had to push their teams to the bests teams in the world.

 

[subshakerz]

You can really tell in this thread who understands cricket and who just looks at numbers on a screen

Actually this top 3 idea with 'no holes' is pretty much based on numbers on a screen.

 

[subshakerz]

Top 3 pacers (in my personal order)
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee

Separates themselves from the rest, no holes. But also the ability, especially the top 2 to adapt to conditions and even excel in unfavorable ones. Marshall having the pace, skill set and adaptability to flourish everywhere from shocking India in '83 emerging as the fastest bowler in the world to swing in Australia in '84 to his reduced run and cutters in '88 / '89

Steyn
Ambrose

Records not as complete but supreme match winning ability.

Don't see Australia or WI taking anyone over those two guys and the ability they had to push their teams to the bests teams in the world.

Yeah and you assume captains of Australia and WI are going to follow this cricket nerd logic in their selection?

If it's in the 80s or 2000s they will just see two champion bowlers in Imran and McGrath/Marshall, the former who can bat outright, and will make their decision based on team balance and conditions. Imran btw who pretty much succeeded in all conditions until he decided to play as a bat mainly. If he was Australian in the 2000s he would be hailed as the best player in the world and dropping him would very difficult.

Hence why I said McGrath with his bounce will likely play in Australia where the home team is strong enough not to need extra batting since they have Gilly but there would be a portion of the press and former players who would harass the captain for benching Imran. But you bet your butt they would use Imran over McGrath in the SC to get more batting and a more impactful bowler.

And Imran almost certainly gets ahead of Marshall as well given the extra pace stocks WI had making Imran as an allrounder who can reverse more appealing.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Actually this top 3 idea with 'no holes' is pretty much based on numbers on a screen.

I don't know what a "top 3 no holes" is and I don't want to but all that matters is who is going to win you more games of cricket and the answer is not Kallis/Imran

 

[h_hurricane]

A team of 7 Kallis and 4 Imrans would beat a team of 7 Tendulkars and 4 McGraths every time.

All they would need would be to get McGrath on strike

It will be riveting to watch Kallis keep to Imran and Tendulkar keep to Mcgrath.

 

[subshakerz]

I don't know what a "top 3 no holes" is and I don't want to but all that matters is who is going to win you more games of cricket and the answer is not Kallis/Imran

No. Assume Tendulkar in the 2000s wasn't this untouchable figure, would India trade him for a Dravid level bat who is good enough to be a third fourth seamer level quality? Given the paucity of bowling resources at the time, yes.

 

[TheJediBrah]

No.

Yes.

Assume Tendulkar in the 2000s wasn't this untouchable figure, would India trade him for a Dravid level bat who is good enough to be a third fourth seamer level quality? Given the paucity of bowling resources at the time, yes.

no

 

[subshakerz]

Yes.

no

You aren't actually addressing ground realities of the game itself.

 

[TheJediBrah]

You aren't actually addressing ground realities of the game itself.

You're playing chess, and you think I'm playing checkers, but I'm actually playing 3d chess. I'm working on a whole level you can't even comprehend my friend

 

[subshakerz]

You're playing chess, and you think I'm playing checkers, but I'm actually playing 3d chess. I'm working on a whole level you can't even comprehend my friend

So be it.