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McGrath/Tendulkar or Imran/Kallis

Your Team Selection

  • Imran/Kallis

    Votes: 22 52.4%
  • McGrath/Tendulkar

    Votes: 20 47.6%

  • Total voters
    42

smash84

The Tiger King
The thing is though, despite the recent skirmish I've had with Coronis re SR and Hammond et al, the only dispute I've had with anyone is over Imran and have never ever made it personal or an attack on him in any way, especially since my return. Yet Smali, Trundler, ORS etc drops these little comments event once in a while.

We've had this convo before, I want the very best bowlers, especially my opening bowlers, you among others believe that batting should be heavily factored in and it's a no-brainer. You personally believe that Imran is right up there with the top 3 -5 in terms of quality and I respect that, I just very slightly disagree.

That's the difference tbh, I can respect other's opinions and just agree to disagree, that's just impossible for some when it comes to Imran, which I find mind-blowing, especially since we mostly agree about most other players and topics. I'm not even that far off on the Imran one, but hey.

Smali will continue to drop comments like he has above, and like he has been doing for a decade, despite, again. We mostly agree in most areas.
And yet, you still haven't learned anything in a decade :wacko:
 

Coronis

International Coach
You implied he is a cheat.


Tell me how an Aussie 2000s captain would view Imran or McGrath for their team, not your take.
McGrath - The worlds best bowler who has been supporting our team for a decade
Imran - A 50 year old has-been with a bottlecap
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
I really do get annoyed at how posters who should be seasoned in watching cricket show no nuance when it comes to actual gameplay and real time decisions on the field. This type of thinking is all over CW and it shows they really think about cricket in a statistical vacuum.

Ricky Ponting is not going to give a damn if McGrath averages less in X more countries than Imran or if he had X number of years averaging sub-25. He would just see two champion bowlers with different styles, one perhaps slightly more dependable with traditional seam and bounce and the other more destructive with inswing and reverse, but both the top 2 bowlers in the world of the time. The latter can bat well enough though to perhaps be a 40 average bat in the flat 2000s.

The idea that Ponting wouldn't even entertain the idea of selecting Imran is fanciful.

He would be an automatic selection in the SC and then periodically be selected ahead of McGrath away from home in other countries too. The only place where McGrath has a clear case is Australia where his bowling just suits it more than Imran's.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Similar to India in the 2000s. If you take Tendulkar's name away, you would be left with a reasonably aggressive bat who is not even clearly India's best bat of the decade and Sehwag and Dravid already scoring plenty of runs.

You don't think an aggressive captain like Ganguly who was already short of bowling resources would consider replacing him with a Dravid 2.0 like Kallis but get a RP Singh bowler so he can make a 5 person bowling attack? He undoubtedly would consider that.
 

kyear2

International Coach
You implied he is a cheat.


Tell me how an Aussie 2000s captain would view Imran or McGrath for their team, not your take.
1. Never said cheat

2. The response from all and sundry, I don't want to swear including you, but the majority in his defence was that everyone did it. One person even compared it to the W. I slow over rates. There were lots of (false) equivocating.

3. I've read and heard him admit to altering the condition of the ball. Read accounts of county players intimating they were taught to do so. I in no way made it up.
 

kyear2

International Coach
I really do get annoyed at how posters who should be seasoned in watching cricket show no nuance when it comes to actual gameplay and real time decisions on the field. This type of thinking is all over CW and it shows they really think about cricket in a statistical vacuum.

Ricky Ponting is not going to give a damn if McGrath averages less in X more countries than Imran or if he had X number of years averaging sub-25. He would just see two champion bowlers with different styles, one perhaps slightly more dependable with traditional seam and bounce and the other more destructive with inswing and reverse, but both the top 2 bowlers in the world of the time. The latter can bat well enough though to perhaps be a 40 average bat in the flat 2000s.

The idea that Ponting wouldn't even entertain the idea of selecting Imran is fanciful.

He would be an automatic selection in the SC and then periodically be selected ahead of McGrath away from home in other countries too. The only place where McGrath has a clear case is Australia where his bowling just suits it more than Imran's.
It's like this Subz, you believe that what you believe as well.

You believe that Sachin and Lara are in different tiers. You argued tooth and nail that Sachin was more consistent and Lara's heights couldn't over come his "unpardonable lows"
You also believe that there is a clear, distinct and quite large divide between Sachin and Kallis, based purely on strike rate. Some people may rate them the same but you have your reasons.

The argument was that TJB and a few others stated that McGrath and Tendulkar belonged in that inner ATG circle and there is value beyond the statistics for those players.

Please also remember that you and some others also value bowling all rounders above all else, and way higher than a lot of others do.
 

Adorable Asshole

International Regular
I am not anti Imran.

Coronis, TJB etc makes bottle top jokes and no one says a thing.
I didn't said you being anti-India just that you have a habit of getting in heated about Imran. His fanboys are partly to blame for also.

As for TJB, nobody takes him seriously.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
1. Never said cheat
I know, but that was your implication.
It's like this Subz, you believe that what you believe as well.

You believe that Sachin and Lara are in different tiers. You argued tooth and nail that Sachin was more consistent and Lara's heights couldn't over come his "unpardonable lows"
You also believe that there is a clear, distinct and quite large divide between Sachin and Kallis, based purely on strike rate. Some people may rate them the same but you have your reasons.
I've always said the difference between Sachin and Lara is small.

I do consider a big divide between Kallis and Sachin.

But my point, which you have yet to address, is that cricket captains in real game play don't think as linear with stats as we do. They judge based on conditions and abilities and the balance of the side. They won't give a damn about arbitrary top 10 lists.

Based on which, Kallis and Imran will definitely be considered at least some of the time in the respective teams.

Now, in clear English, can you explain the reasoning why an Indian and Aussie captain will only consider Tendulkar and McGrath in their teams in the 2000s? Don't dodge
 
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