subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Again, to repeat the point, this all changed in the last 20 years when Pakistan's ATG pacers retired and India had consistently better teams than Pakistan.
You really are beating this strawman to death.
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Which Asian all time xi is the strongest?
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
You really are beating this strawman to death.
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
Why do you count only the period until 2000 or so ? A lot of best indian players (Dhoni, Kohli, Rohit, Bumrah, Yuvraj etc.) have had their careers in the last 20 years. Again, no one is just talking about head to head here. If you see the overall ODI record in the last 50 years, which is the right way to go about it, India has been clearly the superior ODI team. There is representation from post 2000s Pakistan players also in your team (Afridi, Razzaq, Babar).
You are cherry picking a 15 year period when Pakistan had better bowlers and extrapolating it to a much larger period, which is silly.
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
Well, that was an easy prediction. Every thread ends up like that, even those not involving Indian or Pakistan players.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Are you ok? This is what you just wrote:
It is really delusional to think that better bowling lineup in paper translates to better performance on field, especially in ODIs.
My point is quite simple. When Pakistan had their ATG bowlers (Imran, Wasim and Waqar) from 80 to 2000, they were a better team with better results. Here are the results from that period and Pakistan are notably ahead in ODIs and tests.
Team records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
When they didn't have these bowlers and India frankly had betters ones consistently from 2003 onwards, India were the better team.
Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Team records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Bottom line trying to pretend that having Wasim, Waqar and Imran in an ATG XI won't translate into better performances is simply wrong.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Those are the bowlers we are talking about in this ATG XI. So what is your point?
TheJediBrah
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Subshakerz is father of Indian posters
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
The Lara v Tendulkar one ended the same even though I was defending Tendulkar.
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
You mentioned that India's best batting performances came after 2000s and Pakistani ATGs retired before that, as if those performances are not important. The truth is they are untested against each other and we never know how they would have fared. Pakistan has the better ODI bowlers in your team and India the better batsmen. Most of Pakistan's best players are prior to 2000. India's post 2000.
India has the better overall ODI record and is the better ODI team imo.
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
Step father rather
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Now in real time you are changing your point.
Do better bowlers improve performance or not?
Because you just said that is delusional.
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
They don't because better batting of opposition cancels it out. Shouldn't be this hard to understand. You went with the statement that Pakistan is better because the bowling is better, ignoring India's better batting. If the bowling is better and all other factors remain the same, then absolutely yes.
Remember that you don't even need to bowl out opposition to win ODIs. Not that it isn't a good skill to have.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Everyone except saltshakerz and he wud have argued he was right there too, against Indian posters, annulling his own argument.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
And he is feeling abandoned
Adorable Asshole
International Regular
It's because of your face and your posts
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Again you are changing your point.
Your context was clear, which was Pakistan's better bowling doesn't lead to better results because look at the overall record. In fact, you called that view delusional. Which was your way of trying to sidestep Pakistan's obvious bowling advantage as being irrelevant paper tigers to make India seem a better team somehow.
When I showed you that isn't the case, that in the period when Pakistan had ATG bowlers clearly their result improved, you are trying to squirm away.
Just admit you made a mistake. Kindly retract your statement so we can move on.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Say what you want about my face but leave the posts alone.
Adorable Asshole
International Regular
Your posts sucks more than your face tbh
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
My posts give your life meaning.
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
Bro, this is where a lot of people have issues with you. From the post I made, it was clear that I meant better bowling alone guarantee victories in an ATG setup against a ATG batting line up. I was talking about situations when pre 2000s Pakistani bowlers lock up horns with All time Indian team. There is no way for any one to know how that would have gone. And you came back and showed their result in 90s which I already knew.
For the last time, this is what I meant. Wasim, Waqar and Saqlain against Dhoni, Rohit or Kohli doesn't guarantee success for bowling team. And that is because Bumrah, Kapil and Zaheer(lesser bowlers than Pakistani counterparts) will be up against lesser batsmen.