StephenZA
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Not directly aimed at you... just posted before I did...You know I don't believe this though lol. I think Kallis was a better batsman than Sobers partly because of his tough home pitches.
Not directly aimed at you... just posted before I did...You know I don't believe this though lol. I think Kallis was a better batsman than Sobers partly because of his tough home pitches.
Wasn't even the first time I said it in the threadOkay, I thought Prince was speaking some agreed upon wisdoms, then he throws something as unorthodox as Kallis > Sobers as a batsman.
I think Kallis was the better batsman but Sobers was the better bowler.
I love having this edgy opinion tbh.
Strongly disagree.Trundler saying Kallis wasn't an allrounder is dumb, but Sobers was used as a frontline bowler for his whole career while Kallis only was for the first part of it. Now he was definitely capable of that standard but they didn't need him for it and wanted him to focus more on his batting so he was used more stategically. On flat pitches Sobers bowled a lot of dry spin to keep the quicks fresh, but Kallis wasn't used much at all. This doesn't mean he wasn't a real allrounder or wasn't capable of being a frontline bowler, but it does mean his average is better than it would have been if he had to bowl harder overs more regularly.
And to bring up everyone's favourite topic, standardised averages:
Sobers - 31.04
Kallis - 32.06
He was actually a proper first or second seamer. He bowled more overs a game than Malcom Marshall.Sobers was a proper fourth bowler over the course of his career based on his WPM and over load.
How do we know how much of that was seam vs spin?He was actually a proper first or second seamer. He bowled more overs a game than Malcom Marshall.
We dont so that's a fair point. Still a huge workload though regardless of what he was bowling. Without confirming, I do think I've read that for most of his peak bowling years when he averaged 27 and picked up 4 WPM, he did bowl primarily as a seamer.How do we know how much of that was seam vs spin?
My thoughts too. And this comes down to eye test - Kallis on his own, not seen Sobers. Kallis coming on to bowl never felt like a pressure release situation and that's quite valuable for a 5th bowler.I have the opposite opinion. I think Kallis had a higher ceiling as a quick bowler, but just so happened to be used less in that role.
It seems people pick and choose what is convenient.Remember Kallis the bowler had green pitches at home... and flat pitches as a batsmen at home.
Remarkably similar to Imran in that respect, barring the spin bowling bit. Could have lost the 2 greatest allrounders of all time, if selectors decided not to show faith or allow them back in the side.Sobers started his career as a spin bowler, batting in the lower order and was abysmal at both.
Then Imran never becomes PM and never gets arrested.Remarkably similar to Imran in that respect, barring the spin bowling bit. Could have lost the 2 greatest allrounders of all time, if selectors decided not to show faith or allow them back in the side.
A few will have done. Kallis was quicker, certainly in his younger days.Out of curiosity, who here has seen Sobers bowl?
How much of that was shifting more to spin as he grew older? And how much better would you say he was at pace than spin?When county cricket took its toll his bowling declined but he still got through the overs.
There was quite a good thread on Sobers’ bowling career - particularly these posts from SJS on the last page offer a great amount of info.How much of that was shifting more to spin as he grew older? And how much better would you say he was at pace than spin?
Finally, just as a curiosity, do you know how much of the spin stuff was wrist spin compared to what I assume was more commonly orthodox?
This surprises me, as I'd always assumed the proportion was somewhat higher than that.Probably just over half Sobers' Test wickets would have been in his quicker style.