England's 2005 Ashes side vs England 2023 'Bazball' Ashes side.

[Molehill]

World Test Champions 2-0 up in a 5 Test series and one of the remaining 3 gets rained off too. It's hard to imagine when they get a better opportunity to win here. Think it's going to be a long time before it happens....

 

[sledger]

Read

what

 

[Chin Music]

Should be remembered that the 2005 team was capable of taking the attack with over 400 in a day at Edgbaston in a lick under 80 overs. The bowling had more depth too with all four quicks providing different attributes.

 

[GIMH]

Should be remembered that the 2005 team was capable of taking the attack with over 400 in a day at Edgbaston in a lick under 80 overs. The bowling had more depth too with all four quicks providing different attributes.

One injury was enough to weaken that attack, though. Anderson of 2005 wasn't trusted to step in and Tremlett wasn't ready (nor as we saw later that winter was Plunkett etc).

England played Anderson, Broad, Robinson, Woakes, Wood and Tongue in this series and Stokes bowled early on too. And I'd argue Woakes and Wood were better options than the 2005 versions of Hoggard and Harmison.

 

[Burgey]

Winning is always very important. You can't tell me that the likes of Stokes, Broad, Jimmy, Root etc will be happy that we didn't win the series.

But you do have to put this series in to context. We were against the best test team in the world and matched them blow for blow.

And this Engkand team is far from being the finished article. McCullum and Stokes have only been in charge for 15 months and the side is still very much developing and learning.

The Aussies meanwhile are a fully formed side, they've been together a long time and are pretty much at their peak.

We're not celebrating the drawn series because winning doesn't matter, its because we've come a long way in a short time and we think there's alot more to come.

 

[Burgey]

By the time it happens, whenever it is, it will be the longest ever run of either side failing to win away (so some podcast or another reliably informed me anyway)

What’s the longest run either side has gone in failing to win a single away Ashes test match?

 

[GIMH]

What’s the longest run either side has gone in failing to win a single away Ashes test match?

Couldn’t give even the tiniest **** you cretinous oaf

 

[ataraxia]

Little-known factoid: Australia didn't win a single Ashes test for billions of years until 1882.

 

[Molehill]

What’s the longest run either side has gone in failing to win a single series away from home?

Seeing as you asked....

I reckon it was probably England from 1986-2010. So congrats on now being worse than when a truly awful England side were up against an all time great Aussie one. And before that England 1932-54 which took into account a World War and another great Aussie team.

That's really quite embarrassing for you.....

 

[Chin Music]

One injury was enough to weaken that attack, though. Anderson of 2005 wasn't trusted to step in and Tremlett wasn't ready (nor as we saw later that winter was Plunkett etc).

England played Anderson, Broad, Robinson, Woakes, Wood and Tongue in this series and Stokes bowled early on too. And I'd argue Woakes and Wood were better options than the 2005 versions of Hoggard and Harmison.

Anderson wasn't really a match for any of the 2005 seam options in terms of performance nor anyone else in 2023. In fact Australia should be disappointed that they didn't attack him more once they realised he was lacking zip and even consistency in challenging good areas. Wood does provide a bit of a point of difference, but overall I don't think it is easy to judge the effect of bowling to the 2005 Aussies compared to 2023, given for me a considerable disparity in quality for the former Aussie side compared to the current.

 

[Owzat]

2005 side they ended a long ashes drought against one the best Aussie sides ever. The 2023 side didn’t even win at home. Hard to compare the two also as the Bazball era hasn’t went on long enough yeah they’ve had a good year. The 2005 side didn’t last too long also.

to be fair the 2005 series winning side won 2-1 and by margins of 3 wickets and 2 runs


Z.Crawley - only he and Khawaja topped 400+ runs
A.Strauss - 106 at Old Trafford nearly won England the 3rd Test, 129 at the Oval helped England avoid a 2-2, Trescothick did score more runs but didn't convert any of his 3 fifties and Strauss also took 6 catches to his 3, only Bell took more as a non-keeper for England
H.Brook - 363 runs, didn't like batting #3 but couldn't really include Vaughan or Ali, and he did score 135 runs batting there
J.Root - 412 runs, 11 catches, nuff said
K.Pietersen - 473 runs, right up there with Khawaja and Crawley, no catches which is a surprise
B.Stokes - 403 runs, wasn't intending including him but given four quicks and a keeper picked he was last in
A.Flintoff - 402 runs, 24 wickets, nuff said
J.Bairstow WK - only up against Jones, but three big(gish) fifties and more catches than CareyCad, had more than a 50-50 chance of making it
C.Woakes - can't argue with 19 wickets in THREE Tests, and a couple of handy 30s with the bat. Would have won all three, well probably, but for the rain - "we blame the rains up in Manchester", song by Toto isn't it...?
S.Broad - 22 wickets but no 5wi, ironically took more wickets in the Tests England lost (11) than the ones they won (9)
S.Jones - 6/53 and 5/44, helped England win one and to within 1 wicket of winning another

No spinner, would have to be Root, neither Giles nor Ali did nearly enough (19 wickets between them, both could and should have done/taken more) and Root took 6 wickets which is nearly what Giles and Ali managed. Did pick all 5 top scorers for England in 2023, 2 of the top 4 in 2005 and both top wicket takers in the respective series

Could have given more credit to 2005 batsmen given Warne (40), Lee and McGrath (19 in 3 matches) were phenomenal. England could have easily won in 2023 if the 4th Test had played out more, and if they had managed to polish the aussies off at 209/7 but instead lost by 2 wickets for a further 70 odd runs

 

[Burgey]

Lee was terrible in 2005. Was c2018 Khawaja-level in being a senior pro in a depleted bowling line up and failing to deliver. Story of his whole career bar about 18 months at either end

 

[GIMH]

Lee was terrible in 2005. Was c2018 Khawaja-level in being a senior pro in a depleted bowling line up and failing to deliver. Story of his whole career bar about 18 months at either end

I thought he had his moments (always seem to remember him terrifying me in the 4th innings at Trent Bridge) but failed to step up in the circumstances i.e. McGrath absent/not himself.

 

[wpdavid]

I thought he had his moments (always seem to remember him terrifying me in the 4th innings at Trent Bridge) but failed to step up in the circumstances i.e. McGrath absent/not himself.

I also think we should credit the batters for playing him pretty well most of the time. KP vs Lee at the start of session 2 on the final day at The Oval was one for the ages. Maybe the English pitches just weren't quite quick enough for him, and he didn't have the skills of McGrath or peak Gillespie to consistetly threaten.

 

[sledger]

I thought he had his moments (always seem to remember him terrifying me in the 4th innings at Trent Bridge) but failed to step up in the circumstances i.e. McGrath absent/not himself.

He was the kind of bowler who got most of his wickets through really good balls, but in between he would bowl a load of rubbish that you'd always fancy scoring runs against I always thought. The kind of player who, if you watched a highlights video, would probably think was amazing, but when you actually watched properly would realise ultimately wasn't much chop.

 

[GIMH]

He was the kind of bowler who got most of his wickets through really good balls, but in between he would bowl a load of rubbish that you'd always fancy scoring runs against I always thought. The kind of player who, if you watched a highlights video, would probably think was amazing, but when you actually watched properly would realise ultimately wasn't much chop.

Yeah this is a good way of putting it

Suppose it’s the same as a lot of express bowlers

 

[Prince EWS]

Well apparently it’s not altogether important to the current lot and its acolytes.

They're saving Test cricket!