All time Asian-XI

[trundler]

And no we can't ignore his younger years

Yes we ****ing can because the other options simply didn't play as teens

Shakib? He is just occupying space. If you are facing an ATG XI, the best bet is five worldclass bowling options and having extra lower order bat strength is less priority. So you either pick another pacer or Kumble, the next best spinner.

Shakib makes perfect sense. An Asian side needs two spinners. Would complement Murali well. He's a better batsman than Ashwin or Jadeja which is more important than his bowling since Murali is a machine. You still need the second spin option for pitches where pacers are less useful and he's good enough for that.

 

[BazBall21]

Yes we ****ing can because the other options simply didn't play as teens

Shakib makes perfect sense. An Asian side needs two spinners. Would complement Murali well. He's a better batsman than Ashwin or Jadeja which is more important than his bowling since Murali is a machine. You still need the second spin option for pitches where pacers are less useful and he's good enough for that.

Do you have Hanif in your XI?

 

[trundler]

Do you have Hanif in your XI?

No, I have Gavaskar and Sehwag. But Hanif is a valid choice and not taking career lengths into account being dumb and wrong is a hill I'm firmly camped atop.

 

[subshakerz]

Shakib makes perfect sense. An Asian side needs two spinners. Would complement Murali well. He's a better batsman than Ashwin or Jadeja which is more important than his bowling since Murali is a machine. You still need the second spin option for pitches where pacers are less useful and he's good enough for that.

You don't need any extra batsman. You need a better spinner.

Normally one all-rounder is enough for a test side. We have two with Imran and Wasim. Three is overkill and unnecessary.

 

[trundler]

You don't need any extra batsman. You need a better spinner.

Normally one all-rounder is enough for a test side. We have two with Imran and Wasim. Three is overkill and unnecessary.

Imran and Wasim play as bowlers anyway. The 2 along with Shakib strengthen the tail enough to make up for the lack of a batsman. Shakib is a better batsman than Imran and looks better at 7.

 

[subshakerz]

Imran and Wasim play as bowlers anyway. The 2 along with Shakib strengthen the tail enough to make up for the lack of a batsman. Shakib is a better batsman than Imran and looks better at 7.

Imran and Wasim are fine at 7 and 8.

The difference between Kumble and Shakib as spinners is more than the utility provided him as a bat, especially against an ATG XI.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Wow how poor bowlers must they be to require tailored pitches to do something of note. Joe root proved it

If you think that’s a valid argument you’re dumber then you sound. Joe Root fluked it. Plenty of bowlers, spin, pace, medium trundlers, have occasionally fluked a great spell - including part timers.
Jadeja wins you an insane number of games at home.

 

[Silver Line]

Plenty of debatable choices here.

Hanif, respectfully, doesn't have the output to justify selection. And no we can't ignore his younger years especially since he didn't play that many tests. So between Sehwag and Anwar, Sehwag has the better career even tho I consider Anwar a more quality bat. We have to give it to Sehwag.

Dravid's peak is between 2002 to 2006 and he averaged 68 in that. And in terms of peer opinion, I don't think there is a bowler who would rate Younis ahead of Dravid. It's close but Dravid.

Miandad is Pakistan's best bat agreed.

Shakib? He is just occupying space. If you are facing an ATG XI, the best bet is five worldclass bowling options and having extra lower order bat strength is less priority. So you either pick another pacer or Kumble, the next best spinner.

dravid peak u mentioned is of 4 years, while younis’s average of 60 is for 11 years. How is that close?

Do you understand how big that difference is? Peer review? No lad, thats just you growing up as an indian which has caused it to highlight him more in your media and make him standout more for you growing up. As is the case with any person from any national background tbf.

Hanif doesnt have output? Are you okay there? Did you just call a 17 year career as no output?

a career 5 years longer than Sehwag you just put down here. Matches werent played that much back then genius. May as well ahead and call every non english-aussie from the past a fraud then.

Ironic isnt it, after talking about peer value, then further going ahead to pick Sehwag over Anwar after admiting who was held higher.

You want to pick 30 averaging kumble over 30 averaging shakib? when Shakib adds 40 more with the bat?

this is a laughable take from a viewpoint india was the hero of the cricketing world or soemthing

 

[trundler]

Subshakerz accused of anti-Pakistan bias. I've seen it all.

 

[ataraxia]

Ladies and gentleman, the famously biased Indian, @subshakerz!

 

[Silver Line]

If you think that’s a valid argument you’re dumber then you sound. Joe Root fluked it. Plenty of bowlers, spin, pace, medium trundlers, have occasionally fluked a great spell - including part timers.
Jadeja wins you an insane number of games at home.

Name me some of these plenty of part timers who have fluked something equal or better to a 5/8 then good sir

 

[Silver Line]

Imran and Wasim are fine at 7 and 8.

The difference between Kumble and Shakib as spinners is more than the utility provided him as a bat, especially against an ATG XI.

went to check their stats and found shakib holds a better bowling strike rate than kumble too!

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Normally one all-rounder is enough for a test side. We have two with Imran and Wasim. Three is overkill and unnecessary.

Point 1 - Wasim is a useful tailender; not an allrounder.

Point 2 - NZ would have 3 allrounders in an ATG side (C Cairns, Hadlee, & Vettori) as would South Africa (Kallis, Faulkner, & Procter/S Pollock). India's recent success at home has been greatly due to Ashwin, Jadeja, and Axar and many would put the 1st 2 in an Indian ATG team along with Kapil.

 

[_00_deathscar]

An alternative XI (no p/cw caveat), missing some obvious names.

Gavaskar
Mohammed
Tendulkar
Miandad
Sanga +
Mankad
Imran Khan *
Shakib AH
Dev
Wasim Akram
Murali

Loads of AR, loads of flexibility. That side would be good for all conditions. 5 great bats. 2 specialist openers.

On what basis does Kapil Dev get in here to bat that low?

 

[number11]

On what basis does Kapil Dev get in here to bat that low?

The order is flexible, especially in a team like that. However, he was not as good a test bat as Imran so it's 7 or lower.

 

[_00_deathscar]

The order is flexible, especially in a team like that. However, he was not as good a test bat as Imran so it's 7 or lower.

He’s not a good enough third seamer though for an all time side (except India etc). Have him play higher and be the 5th bowler, or not at all.

 

[number11]

I think in the context of atg we look at pitches ‘neutralised for both pace and spin’. An hence why we pick the better cricketer.

anwar and sehwag had issues, Hanif is the safest bet and as i had pointed out, from age 23 onwards he averaged 52, aka his true representative stat of him as a batter.

sanga as keeper, as the iconic or legendary part is missing from other asian test keepers. And adding a specialist wk who cant bat that well, will make the team look less appealing or threatning on paper.

statistically Sanga from 2001-2007 averaged 43 with the gloves. How many batsman keepers even average past that?He basically converted from atg keeper to atg batsman. Otherwise as a keeper he is absoluetely a solid pick. An in a lineup of batting legends we can compromise for a random specialist keeper

Shakib deserves alot of credit, monstrous time span with a nothing support. A 40 bat avg with 30 bowl avg.His limited over career further highlights he was no fraud, who required conditions to operate well in test. For context kapil who is hailed legendary, with a better team had same bowling averages but his batting was half the average of shakib. Insane!

miandad has like a 18 year span batting and yet avgs 52.5, filter his peak and it’ll only go higher. From debut to ‘89 (13 years) he averaged 57.

for context Steve Smith the greatest test bat since bradman has played for 12 years and looks due retirement in the next 2 years. Miandad peak ive selected is smiths whole career
Miandad is in for sure. Dravid’s peak numbers of 57 was like 6years bruh.

i think dravid is great and all, but Younis’s numbers career being nearly all away games is just insane.
In fact, Younis Khan from 2004-2015 (11 years) averaged 60 with the bat with f all home games.

also at no.5 Miandad has the stats and experience backing him (54). With Younis having the stats backing him (48), while Dravid went at an average of (38).

1. Hanif Mohammad
2. Sunil Gavaskar
3. Younis Khan
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Javed Miandad
6. Kumar Sangakkara (wk)
7. Shakib al Hasan
8. Imran Khan (c)
9. Wasim Akram
10. Waqar Younis
11. Muttiah Muralitharan

That is a fine team. A few slots are always debatable.

 

[number11]

He’s not a good enough third seamer though for an all time side (except India etc). Have him play higher and be the 5th bowler, or not at all.

It was just an alternative xi to my initial pick. A team chock full of ARs. I agree Dev would not make an alltime Asian XI. Far better specialists in each discipline.

 

[subshakerz]

dravid peak u mentioned is of 4 years, while younis’s average of 60 is for 11 years. How is that close?

Do you understand how big that difference is? Peer review? No lad, thats just you growing up as an indian which has caused it to highlight him more in your media and make him standout more for you growing up. As is the case with any person from any national background tbf.

Hanif doesnt have output? Are you okay there? Did you just call a 17 year career as no output?

a career 5 years longer than Sehwag you just put down here. Matches werent played that much back then genius. May as well ahead and call every non english-aussie from the past a fraud then.

Ironic isnt it, after talking about peer value, then further going ahead to pick Sehwag over Anwar after admiting who was held higher.

You want to pick 30 averaging kumble over 30 averaging shakib? when Shakib adds 40 more with the bat?

this is a laughable take from a viewpoint india was the hero of the cricketing world or soemthing

Well thanks for calling me an Indian with an Indian bias, that helps when all I get accused of is being a Pakistani with a Pakistani bias.

Anyhoo, Dravid had a much better early career than Younis against higher quality bowling, and his overall record is better than Younis too. So selective peaks can obscure things. There is very little doubt Dravid is held in higher regard in international cricket though as a bat, while I admit Younis is underrated. At least we can agree it is close between the two.

As for Hanif, you can't have it both ways and say he has a 17 year career and then exclude his teenage years from the equation. If you remove them, his numbers of test as a sample is quite low, same problem with Anwar compared to Sehwag who had over 100 tests. I try to be fair as longevity is an important factor. Regardless, I think Hanif and Gavaskar are going to bore people to sleep so I would prefer contrasting openers.

Kumble's stats with Shakib mask the fact that he was several leagues ahead as a bowler. I just feel strongly you need five worldclass bowlers for an ATG XI and would sacrifice an extra few runs for that.

 

[Silver Line]

Well thanks for calling me an Indian with an Indian bias, that helps when all I get accused of is being a Pakistani with a Pakistani bias.

Anyhoo, Dravid had a much better early career than Younis against higher quality bowling, and his overall record is better than Younis too. So selective peaks can obscure things. There is very little doubt Dravid is held in higher regard in international cricket though as a bat, while I admit Younis is underrated. At least we can agree it is close between the two.

As for Hanif, you can't have it both ways and say he has a 17 year career and then exclude his teenage years from the equation. If you remove them, his numbers of test as a sample is quite low, same problem with Anwar compared to Sehwag who had over 100 tests. I try to be fair as longevity is an important factor. Regardless, I think Hanif and Gavaskar are going to bore people to sleep so I would prefer contrasting openers.

Kumble's stats with Shakib mask the fact that he was several leagues ahead as a bowler. I just feel strongly you need five worldclass bowlers for an ATG XI and would sacrifice an extra few runs for that.

i can agree to be neutral on your other points, but firsty kumble is not world class if no one is even willing to have him over ashwin and jadeja. Secondly kumble is not leagues ahead when the stats are literally the same as shakib. From what pov did you define Kumble as a better quality bowler?