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*Official* Second Test (Lord's, London) 28 June–2 July

CartyDurham

CartyDurham

International Captain
Ashes81 said:
I know you're new to the site mate but you can't be saying that.

England did not win the ODI World Cup, despite getting presented with the trophy and every record book saying that we did.

Winning on the boundary count after the super over, despite this being the rules, doesn't count and is in no way similar to winning on penalties in football.

The match was a draw and the trophy should have shared. In fact if we had anything about us, we would have given them the trophy as we only forced the tie due to Ben Stokes deliberately letting the throw hit his bat and go for 4 overthrows.

Also you need to show some empathy with our NZ friends. It was only 4 years ago and understandably that are still bitter about the whole thing.

It's no use saying to them that we were a bit lucky but that's the way it goes sometimes. Also it doesn't help one bit if you say they are your 2nd favourite team and you admire how they play and the sportsmanship they display.

Please take note and do not refer to the tied game as an England victory, even though we obviously did win, albeit with a slice of luck.
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The record states England are white ball holders of both the odi World Cup and t20

that’s a very basic fact

I can say it as both happened and are in the record books forever more

I know it’s not acknowledged but it’s fact

any cricket record states it to be so

so I’ll keep on saying it

I know it hurts overseas fans but so be it. It happened that’s life
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
CartyDurham said:
Exactly. Any slight criticism of Australia and they descend like vultures

as I said in the last test , when you read the thread, there was not a good ball bowled or good shot played by the England players

everything was a mistake by Australia but no good play by England

I’ll continue to call out Australia and criticise England when it happens
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This is a truly novel concept, the idea that everyone kept saying that Australia made mistakes and simultaneously that no one is criticising Australia. Almost Orwellian in its juxtaposition.
 
CartyDurham

CartyDurham

International Captain
Spark said:
This is a truly novel concept, the idea that everyone kept saying that Australia made mistakes and simultaneously that no one is criticising Australia. Almost Orwellian in its juxtaposition.
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Ignore it if you wish

what I said is this. When England took any wicket it was declared as poor play by Australia ie England didn’t bowl a good ball

when England scored runs it was described as poor bowling. Ie England didn’t play any good shots

you may not realise this but it’s all there to read

I know it’s not nice to see

nothing Orwellian just the inability to see good in anything England say or do
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
CartyDurham said:
Ignore it if you wish

what I said is this. When England took any wicket it was declared as poor play by Australia ie England didn’t bowl a good ball

when England scored runs it was described as poor bowling. Ie England didn’t play any good shots

you may not realise this but it’s all there to read

I know it’s not nice to see
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The problem here is that you view "x made a mistake" and "y played well" as completely mutually exclusive. It was good cricket by England to capitalise on all the mistakes Australia provided in the first morning by bowling so erratically, erring constantly in both line and length. It may be a brilliant shot to a leg stump half volley but it's still always going to be a leg stump half volley and while I'd be happy to see England bowling a lot of those, I don't think James Anderson is going to be rocking up and saying "yeah I kept bowling on Steve Smith's pads but what can you do? They were just good shots". He'd be ****ing pissed at himself for making skill errors. And vice versa, I don't think you see Marnus Labuschagne in the nets this week shrugging and going "well I got bowled a good ball or two, there's nothing I need to do to improve" - no, as a top tier professional sportsman, I absolutely can guarantee that he's working overtime on his judgement of line outside off stump.

That's what great professional sportsmen do, when they make mistakes they don't just go "ah well, it was a good shot/good ball to capitalise", they go away and work on the deficiencies that allowed that weakness to be exploited. That's where my posting is aimed at, wanting Australia's cricketers to improve. It does not mean that England never played any good cricket which is just something you've made up in your head.

It didn't help that IMO Edgbaston was a game that was absolutely riddled, chock-full, of avoidable errors, by both sides, and frankly from my point of view it was a pretty mid-tier game of cricket from a quality perspective. Dramatic, in a way that error-strewn games of sport often are, but still error-strewn. Sport is most compelling when the drama happens with both sides at their absolute best and I don't think either side was anywhere near that last week.
 
CartyDurham

CartyDurham

International Captain
Surprised how mediocre Green looked in the first test. I was expecting a cross between Garfield Sobers and Jacques Kallis
 
CartyDurham

CartyDurham

International Captain
Spark said:
The problem here is that you view "x made a mistake" and "y played well" as completely mutually exclusive. It was good cricket by England to capitalise on all the mistakes Australia provided in the first morning by bowling so erratically, erring constantly in both line and length. It may be a brilliant shot to a leg stump half volley but it's still always going to be a leg stump half volley and while I'd be happy to see England bowling a lot of those, I don't think James Anderson is going to be rocking up and saying "yeah I kept bowling on Steve Smith's pads but what can you do? They were just good shots". He'd be ****ing pissed at himself for making skill errors. And vice versa, I don't think you see Marnus Labuschagne in the nets this week shrugging and going "well I got bowled a good ball or two, there's nothing I need to do to improve" - no, as a top tier professional sportsman, I absolutely can guarantee that he's working overtime on his judgement of line outside off stump.

That's what great professional sportsmen do, when they make mistakes they don't just go "ah well, it was a good shot/good ball to capitalise", they go away and work on the deficiencies that allowed that weakness to be exploited. That's where my posting is aimed at, wanting Australia's cricketers to improve. It does not mean that England never played any good cricket which is just something you've made up in your head.

It didn't help that IMO Edgbaston was a game that was absolutely riddled, chock-full, of avoidable errors, by both sides, and frankly from my point of view it was a pretty mid-tier game of cricket from a quality perspective. Dramatic, in a way that error-strewn games of sport often are, but still error-strewn.
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Excellent , I missed this whilst watching cricket since the 1970s. Totally overlooked everything you have now educated me on, I feel you have slightly overreacted

thank you

Keep up the good work
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Spark said:
It didn't help that IMO Edgbaston was a game that was absolutely riddled, chock-full, of avoidable errors, by both sides, and frankly from my point of view it was a pretty mid-tier game of cricket from a quality perspective. Dramatic, in a way that error-strewn games of sport often are, but still error-strewn. Sport is most compelling when the drama happens with both sides at their absolute best and I don't think either side was anywhere near that last week.
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Its a good summary IMO. I think Aus were definitely spooked and went away from a lot of their game plans coz of Bazball, esp. with the ball. But England made enough mistakes with the bat that kept them in the game or even let them drive the game. And Australia on that last day wicket, as Cummins said, should never have even been 8 down or whatever it was. It was a game of unforced errors and ultimately, England made more in the last hour and a bit of the play that ended up being decisive IMO. It swung both ways till then depending on who made the latest UE.

Think Stokes and England were also pretty spooked by Cummins' hitting at the end there.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
honestbharani said:
Its a good summary IMO. I think Aus were definitely spooked and went away from a lot of their game plans coz of Bazball, esp. with the ball. But England made enough mistakes with the bat that kept them in the game or even let them drive the game. And Australia on that last day wicket, as Cummins said, should never have even been 8 down or whatever it was. It was a game of unforced errors and ultimately, England made more in the last hour and a bit of the play that ended up being decisive IMO. It swung both ways till then depending on who made the latest UE.

Think Stokes and England were also pretty spooked by Cummins' hitting at the end there.
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Yeah this is exactly my feeling too. It weirdly felt like a tennis game in abstract; I make a mistake, then you make a mistake, then I make a mistake, and whoever makes the least number of critical mistakes by the end wins. It really was an unusual Test in that regard and honestly it's why I'm not on the "this was an amazing showcase for the game" train; I want quality and drama, not just drama.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
Qlder said:
If you want England batters and bowlers to get more praise you should be asking English fans why they aren't saying so. It's not Aussie fans job to praise them
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It's not like I'm exactly being effusive in my praise of Australia either, in fact the complete opposite
 
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