Test Cricket "Hot Takes"

[Spark]

Their pace depth was probs better but was their spin depth as good? They've got maharaj, who's easily their best spinner since readmission, harmer as a second option, and linde who would walk into most other SA teams as the frontline option. Not like their pace depth is bad either, every home summer they have a new guy walk in and take poles for fun (your defs right about the 2010 pace depth being better though, being a pacer in general was way harder then compared to now).

Maharaj isn't so much better than the spin options they had that it makes up for not having Dale Steyn. Or Vernon Philander.

 

[Nintendo]

Maharaj isn't so much better than the spin options they had that it makes up for not having Dale Steyn. Or Vernon Philander.

I'll give you steyn, but you can't seriously tell me that philander is THAT much better than rabada or that jansen right now doesn't have the ceiling to be on philander's level. No way somoene like paul harris is anywhere near maharaj, or any of the other spinner's I mentioned.

 

[Spark]

I'll give you steyn, but you can't seriously tell me that philander is THAT much better than rabada or that jansen right now doesn't have the ceiling to be on philander's level. No way somoene like paul harris is anywhere near maharaj, or any of the other spinner's I mentioned.

Okay but you're conflating two things here. You're saying that Jansen has the potential to be at Philander's level. I'm saying that right now he's not at Philander's level, which is fine - Philander was ****ing ridiculous.

I just don't think Maharaj being better than Harris matters that much in the scheme of things. Yeah he might take 2.5 wickets a game instead of 2.3. Does it really matter? That team, and this, lives and dies on the quality of its bowling attack. If it ever runs into a condition where Maharaj being better than Harris is truly a difference maker then the team is already ****ed because none of them can play spin bowling to save their lives. Throwing Smith and Amla into the mix doesn't alter that enough to compensate for it, two batsmen do not a batting order make.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

2010 also had Kallisball

 

[Nintendo]

Okay but you're conflating two things here. You're saying that Jansen has the potential to be at Philander's level. I'm saying that right now he's not at Philander's level, which is fine - Philander was ****ing ridiculous.

I just don't think Maharaj being better than Harris matters that much in the scheme of things. Yeah he might take 2.5 wickets a game instead of 2.3. Does it really matter? That team, and this, lives and dies on the quality of its bowling attack. If it ever runs into a condition where Maharaj being better than Harris is truly a difference maker then the team is already ****ed because none of them can play spin bowling to save their lives. Throwing Smith and Amla into the mix doesn't alter that enough to compensate for it, two batsmen do not a batting order make.

I think your missing my point a bit here, no? I was saying that overall across their bowling depth the current era is better than 2010. SA have 3 spinners better than harris, who from what I can tell was the best choice they had in the 2010 era. Philander and steyn where definitely better than the current batch at that point, maybe rabada is as good as steyn but early career philander was jamieson level of ridiculous (comparing him to jansen was stupid on my end, didn't realise philander took his first 70 wickets @17).

Outside of those two morkel was probably the ~3rd best seamer that played then, right? He took his wickets at 28 in that 2010 period. (I did start of 2009-2011, which may not be right since philander only debuted in 2011, let me know if there's a different window a bit later that has morkel performing a ton better) Even considering that morkel played in a far harder era for pacers then the current lot, that's not much better than what nortje and jansen, and to a lesser extent ngidi have achieved in the past ~2 years.

 

[Molehill]

i really don't think "bazball" is like some secret moneyball tactic that is going to totally revolutionise the way cricket's played. more lightning in a bottle for a particular team with particular players that allows them to come close to being greater than the sum of their parts

I pretty much agree with this. England have the best white ball batting talent and a number of players are simply better playing in that kind of way.

 

[TheJediBrah]

The first one about SA isn't a hot take it's just ridiculous, but at least it's an interesting opinion i guess

 

[Nintendo]

If Smith didn't get concussed in the 2019 ashes marnus would have a far worse record, probably averaging >50 in test cricket at this point.

 

[Dendarii]

I think your missing my point a bit here, no? I was saying that overall across their bowling depth the current era is better than 2010. SA have 3 spinners better than harris, who from what I can tell was the best choice they had in the 2010 era. Philander and steyn where definitely better than the current batch at that point, maybe rabada is as good as steyn but early career philander was jamieson level of ridiculous (comparing him to jansen was stupid on my end, didn't realise philander took his first 70 wickets @17).

Outside of those two morkel was probably the ~3rd best seamer that played then, right? He took his wickets at 28 in that 2010 period. (I did start of 2009-2011, which may not be right since philander only debuted in 2011, let me know if there's a different window a bit later that has morkel performing a ton better) Even considering that morkel played in a far harder era for pacers then the current lot, that's not much better than what nortje and jansen, and to a lesser extent ngidi have achieved in the past ~2 years.

Harris was the spinner during the 00s. He played his last test in 2011, and then it was Tahir and Peterson until Maharaj debuted in 2015. But that doesn't take away from your point about the spin options being better now than back then.

As for the fast bowling, over the 2010s there was the core trio of Steyn. Philander, and Morkel who were backed up at various times by Abbott, Olivier, and Rabada.

Now there's Rabada, Ngidi, Nortje, and Jansen, with Coetzee having recently made his debut and a few others bubbling under. It's difficult to know for certain because they're untested, but on potential the depth could very well be better now.

 

[TheJediBrah]

If Smith didn't get concussed in the 2019 ashes marnus would have a far worse record, probably averaging >50 in test cricket at this point.

You mean less than 50 right

 

[Bijed]

If Smith didn't get concussed in the 2019 ashes marnus would have a far worse record, probably averaging >50 in test cricket at this point.

When do you think he'd have got back into the side? Just come in for Head when he got dropped later in the series?

 

[Nintendo]

When do you think he'd have got back into the side? Just come in for Head when he got dropped later in the series?

Best case marnus comes in for the fourth test for uzzie mayb? He wouldn't come back in first head, he got dropped in the fifth game to accommodate an all-rounder.

Worst case, marnus doesn't come in over the Ashes, has the same mediocre shield campaign he had leading into that home summer and misses out on some 100's vs Pak and maybe NZ.

Really comes down to if the managment decide to back uzzie, and how he goes at 3 over 4 in that 3rd test.

 

[shortpitched713]

But not a patch on the pace attacks of Lillee and Thomson

DWTA. They've got more depth after the first 2.

 

[shortpitched713]

Please share some of your drugs with us.

The only reason it isn't happening already, is that we don't have 5 day Tests as a norm. We're going towards the end of the spectrum of 3 day games. I.e. "traditional match length", is being undermined.

You can't keep both that and "traditional averages (individual or team)" , in an ever increasing run rate environment.

 

[shortpitched713]

I don’t think anyone expects batters to deliberately score at a rate that won’t optimise the runs they score.

Completely agree with the rest of your post, but don't hold this statement to be as clear cut and obvious as you make it. Traditionalism and inertia are very, very real things in sports.

It's why it took NBA teams over 30 years to figure out that mathematically in fact, 3 > 2 . And it is why there are still a significant number of NFL teams still running the ball close to 50% of the time on first down, when they all only get about half as many yards per play running than passing, regardless of their run/pass mix .

 

[honestbharani]

Please share some of your drugs with us.

Its called International Cricket Captain. You can play it on mobile or desktop.

I currently have 5 players in India alone who average above test cricket and the year is 2028.

 

[Socerer 01]

Its called International Cricket Captain. You can play it on mobile or desktop.

I currently have 5 players in India alone who average above test cricket and the year is 2028.

its a **** drug, lets be honest

 

[Prince EWS]

If we still have "normal" 5 day Tests, then it will be normal in a decade to have 5 blokes all with career Test averages over 60.

Otherwise if we stick with the "normal" batting averages as have been in the past, we'll have a spate of 3 day ( or even 2 day ) Tests in a way that will even more significantly rankle us.

I challenge the idea that we're necessarily going to have much faster scoring rates. England aside, run rates have been pretty steady for about 20 years.

 

[ataraxia]

I challenge the idea that we're necessarily going to have much faster scoring rates. England aside, run rates have been pretty steady for about 20 years.

Is that partly due to the decreased run-scoring recently meaning batters don't have the time to get set?

 

[Spark]

Is that partly due to the decreased run-scoring recently meaning batters don't have the time to get set?

Most people would put it down to deteriorating techniques (and in the last five years, tough conditions - hard to score at 5rpo on greentops or bunsens)