Test Cricket "Hot Takes"

[shortpitched713]

1) Throw prime Graeme Smith and Hashim Amla into the current SA side, and they'd currently experience a peak level of dominance to rival 70's/80s WI or 2000s Australia.

2) Run scoring rates have decoupled traditional totals and innings duration that we would have understood in the past. That "weirdness" away from conventional wisdom is part of why Bazball had worked, even though it has nothing to do with conventional wisdom. You start Test cricket matches in the same way whether you're playing in 2023 or 1983. Bat in a manner that will maximize the total runs scored for the innings. That means, just because you "could" bat for X number of overs, doesn't mean you should, if it perversely leads to less runs. That's the break that England have exploited in their period of success.

Also, this means that Test cricket traditionalists will have to choose between conservation of traditional innings totals, or conservation of traditional "better part of 5 or at least most of 4 days of cricket" match duration. You get one or the other ( or a partial amount of each ), but you don't get to keep both, as they are diametrically opposed in eras of ever increasing run rate.

 

[Prince EWS]

Hoggard > Lillee

 

[ataraxia]

That take's a bit cold now tbh

 

[Prince EWS]

That take's a bit cold now tbh

Siddle > Trueman

 

[ataraxia]

Siddle > Trueman

That's better, thx

 

[Starfighter]

1) Throw prime Graeme Smith and Hashim Amla into the current SA side, and they'd currently experience a peak level of dominance to rival 70's/80s WI or 2000s Australia.

2) Run scoring rates have decoupled traditional totals and innings duration that we would have understood in the past. That "weirdness" away from conventional wisdom is part of why Bazball had worked, even though it has nothing to do with conventional wisdom. You start Test cricket matches in the same way whether you're playing in 2023 or 1983. Bat in a manner that will maximize the total runs scored for the innings. That means, just because you "could" bat for X number of overs, doesn't mean you should, if it perversely leads to less runs. That's the break that England have exploited in their period of success.

Also, this means that Test cricket traditionalists will have to choose between conservation of traditional innings totals, or conservation of traditional "better part of 5 or at least most of 4 days of cricket" match duration. You get one or the other ( or a partial amount of each ), but you don't get to keep both, as they are diametrically opposed in eras of ever increasing run rate.

No

 

[shortpitched713]

No

Insightful.

Forget the other stuff, you don't think run rate increase is decoupling traditional innings totals and traditional Test durations / results expecations?

 

[Starfighter]

Insightful.

Forget the other stuff, you don't think run rate increase is decoupling traditional innings totals and traditional Test durations / results expecations?

Not really. Can you even define those things?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

1) Throw prime Graeme Smith and Hashim Amla into the current SA side, and they'd currently experience a peak level of dominance to rival 70's/80s WI or 2000s Australia.

???? I completely disagree. That makes no sense.

Graeme Smith = Greenidge & Hayden
Hashim Amla < Viv & Ponting

The rest of the current SA team is MUCH worse than WIs and Aus of those eras.

 

[shortpitched713]

???? I completely disagree. That makes no sense.

Graeme Smith = Greenidge & Hayden
Hashim Amla < Viv & Ponting

The rest of the current SA team is MUCH worse than WIs and Aus of those eras.

The bowling is incredible.

 

[Spark]

The bowling is decent but absolutely not better than the bowling attack that Smith and Amla played with.

Nortje aside they were horrible a few months back out here.

 

[shortpitched713]

Not really. Can you even define those things?

If we still have "normal" 5 day Tests, then it will be normal in a decade to have 5 blokes all with career Test averages over 60.

Otherwise if we stick with the "normal" batting averages as have been in the past, we'll have a spate of 3 day ( or even 2 day ) Tests in a way that will even more significantly rankle us.

 

[thierry henry]

I don’t think anyone expects batters to deliberately score at a rate that won’t optimise the runs they score. It’s just that if the optimal scoring rate in tests (even with what we would typically consider to be fair pitches) turns out to be much higher than previously thought, and the style of batting much different, cricket becomes a worse sport. It’s entirely possibly that optimised cricket actually sucks, I personally am just hoping that cricket doesn’t actually suck.

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

Test Cricket loses its meaning when it becomes a longer version of T20 ..

 

[Nintendo]

1) Throw prime Graeme Smith and Hashim Amla into the current SA side, and they'd currently experience a peak level of dominance to rival 70's/80s WI or 2000s Australia.

2) Run scoring rates have decoupled traditional totals and innings duration that we would have understood in the past. That "weirdness" away from conventional wisdom is part of why Bazball had worked, even though it has nothing to do with conventional wisdom. You start Test cricket matches in the same way whether you're playing in 2023 or 1983. Bat in a manner that will maximize the total runs scored for the innings. That means, just because you "could" bat for X number of overs, doesn't mean you should, if it perversely leads to less runs. That's the break that England have exploited in their period of success.

Also, this means that Test cricket traditionalists will have to choose between conservation of traditional innings totals, or conservation of traditional "better part of 5 or at least most of 4 days of cricket" match duration. You get one or the other ( or a partial amount of each ), but you don't get to keep both, as they are diametrically opposed in eras of ever increasing run rate.

What does prime Graeme Smith and Amla look like on a runs per game basis? Thr current SA side have their best bowling depth+quality combination since readmission, IMO, but their batting is absolutely dreadful. Bavuma is their best bat, and he's not in the top 10 red ball bats in the world currently., and theirs a massive gap between bavuma and their second best bat in current elgar/makram.

 

[Line and Length]

The bowling is incredible.

But not a patch on the pace attacks of Lillee and Thomson or the fearsome W.I. pacemen.

 

[Spark]

What does prime Graeme Smith and Amla look like on a runs per game basis? Thr current SA side have their best bowling depth+quality combination since readmission, IMO, but their batting is absolutely dreadful. Bavuma is their best bat, and he's not in the top 10 red ball bats in the world currently., and theirs a massive gap between bavuma and their second best bat in current elgar/makram.

Nah their depth around 2010 or so was ridiculous. They were producing a bowler who would take 5 every second game.

Most of those bowlers didn't go on to have great careers, but that's in no small part because they barely got any games - no surprise when the blokes in front of you are Steyn, Philander, and Morkel.

 

[Coronis]

If we still have "normal" 5 day Tests, then it will be normal in a decade to have 5 blokes all with career Test averages over 60.

Otherwise if we stick with the "normal" batting averages as have been in the past, we'll have a spate of 3 day ( or even 2 day ) Tests in a way that will even more significantly rankle us.

Please share some of your drugs with us.

 

[Shady Slim]

i really don't think "bazball" is like some secret moneyball tactic that is going to totally revolutionise the way cricket's played. more lightning in a bottle for a particular team with particular players that allows them to come close to being greater than the sum of their parts

 

[Nintendo]

Nah their depth around 2010 or so was ridiculous. They were producing a bowler who would take 5 every second game.

Most of those bowlers didn't go on to have great careers, but that's in no small part because they barely got any games - no surprise when the blokes in front of you are Steyn, Philander, and Morkel.

Their pace depth was probs better but was their spin depth as good? They've got maharaj, who's easily their best spinner since readmission, harmer as a second option, and linde who would walk into most other SA teams as the frontline option. Not like their pace depth is bad either, every home summer they have a new guy walk in and take poles for fun (your defs right about the 2010 pace depth being better though, being a pacer in general was way harder then compared to now).