*Official* First Test (Edgbaston, Birmingham) 16–20 June

[Socerer 01]

When considering Stokes declaration and England's Bazball approach you have to do so with the wider concept of what he, McCullum and the ECB are trying to achieve.

On CW, we're all cricket nuts. We spend time debating whether one player who retired 30 years ago is better than another who retired 60 years ago.

We view Stokes' actions in a purely cricketing sense. Was the declaration the right cricketing decision or not.

In England, test cricket is not on free to air TV and hasn't been since 2005. In fact cricket is barely on free to air TV apart from highlights, which until recently were on late at night.

The concern is that as older fans like me die off, where is the next generation of fans coming from when there's no cricket on TV to stimulate their interest.

The ECB want to try to address that with the hundred and with the test team playing an exciting, attacking brand of cricket.

Yes we want to win, of course we do, but it's also about getting new fans in to the sport. In fact thats the key aim.

We lost yesterday but everyone is talking about it. TMS got record figures, for its online updates. Would that have happened if the test was a bore draw - not a chance.

The way we play under Stokes has stimulated interest in test cricket and that's a big part of what the ECB is trying to achieve.

So you can criticise our play at times and the declaration etc but in doing so you're only looking at it from a purely cricketing perspective and there's much more to it than that.

does that mean the ecb, england fans and everyone else associated with english cricket are okay with being whitewashed as long as you get record viewership and income as a byproduct of the entertainment?

 

[Molehill]

For sure they would. PEWS has criticised the declaration from the start and well before the result was known.

I haven’t seen bazball before but I have to say the declarations have been the most controversial aspect for me. I hear the reasons for it and it’s part of the strategy but overall can’t see the pay off. I mean has a bazball declaration actually contributed to a win?

No, but it's certainly contributed to a defeat.

Those of us who have watched all of BazBall were completely caught out by the declaration. It was the same with the follow on being enforced in NZ. It feels as if they're almost overthinking things at times.

 

[Spark]

For sure they would. PEWS has criticised the declaration from the start and well before the result was known.

I haven’t seen bazball before but I have to say the declarations have been the most controversial aspect for me. I hear the reasons for it and it’s part of the strategy but overall can’t see the pay off. I mean has a bazball declaration actually contributed to a win?

Most people were very very critical of the declaration immediately in this very thread.

The successful example is definitely Rawalpindi. There's no way that game has a result without Stokes's declaration, which was very juicy. But that's second innings, not first innings, which is a totally different scenario. I actually really like aggressive second innings declarations but I've grown to think that first innings declarations are usually premature.

 

[the big bambino]

it did in Pakistan tbf

Fair enough. I don’t know the circumstances. I think it helped us more than them in this test though.

 

[Molehill]

does that mean the ecb, england fans and everyone else associated with english cricket are okay with being whitewashed as long as you get record viewership and income as a byproduct of the entertainment?

Spot on. It's one thing being entertaining, but if you do it in team losing regularly, you'll soon lose the fans.

 

[Socerer 01]

Fair enough. I don’t know the circumstances. I think it helped us more than them in this test though.

it did and so many people said that at the time of the decision too, its not like hindsight is being applied here. when Australian fans like you are calling it a bad decision you know it is bad

 

[Spark]

Fair enough. I don’t know the circumstances. I think it helped us more than them in this test though.

Basically they raced to set Pakistan 350 to win in 100 overs. Given how unbelievably dead that pitch was, there was no way they could get a result in any less time, but given how easy it had been to score until then (because of said dead pitch), there was a real risk it could have been chased down in a canter. Both sides had put on either side of 600 in the first dig.

 

[Spark]

it did and so many people said that at the time of the decision too, its not like hindsight is being applied here. when Australian fans like you are calling it a bad decision you know it is bad

Yeah to be honest my immediate reaction was bewildered relief. I really, strongly felt England had taken their boot off our throat for no discernible reason other than "Bazball lmao"

 

[Socerer 01]

Spot on. It's one thing being entertaining, but if you do it in team losing regularly, you'll soon lose the fans.

the Indian team is grappling with this question atm, the stars are playing big games because they bring in viewership but many are growing disgruntled with the poor performances, lack of trophies and inconsistency. only saving grace is that India has no other popular sports that they can switch to in mass that is also easily accessible like cricket where as I dont think it is the same for England

 

[Spark]

the Indian team is grappling with this question atm, the stars are playing big games because they bring in viewership but many are growing disgruntled with the poor performances, lack of trophies and inconsistency. only saving grace is that India has no other popular sports that they can switch to in mass that is also easily accessible like cricket where as I dont think it is the same for England

Ehhhh I think that's a bit different though. You pay to see the big names because of the expectation that you'll see them perform compared to randos you've never heard of, so eventually you'll ask questions if they're not doing that. This English team is performing exactly as advertised so far. I don't think any English fan could reasonably complain that they've been hoodwinked, whereas many Indian fans could.

 

[the big bambino]

Thanks to all those refreshing my memory about the declaration in Pakistan. There is a difference between the two. The instance in Pakistan created a challenge whereas the one in this match gave up an advantage.

 

[CartyDurham]

Ok sorry if I’m being mean but if you were in a room and talking literally non stop as you have been people would move away. Just chill lol. For comparison the most prolific poster here has 90k posts after a decade+. At your rate you’re hitting that in a year..

Thanks but I won’t be as I’ll calm down.

 

[Nintendo]

I don't think that's a great example because you would need to have had superhuman ears to have successfully reviewed that. Not much of a missed opportunity if no one heard the edge in the first place.

Fair point, but it's still something they could have reviewed. Same thing happened in pak after Carey fell in the hotel pool, difference is Carey heard it then and convinced Cummins to review it.

My general point this whole time has been that there's far more obvious examples of things Stokes could have done, that he can control, during or before the game (like the bairstow/foakes situation) that had worse impact, smaller upside then the declaration (having TWO chances to bowl at australia with a >10 over old ball and fresh pacers when their bats haven't got in rather than one is a MASSIVE advantage on a flat deck).

It's double annoying seeing people overplay the whole "it cost England 50+ runs" angle when its just as likely England lose the last two wickets for >20 (root literally mistimed a slog the ball before the declaration and only just got it over the ring fielder for two.

Edit:Changed the last paragraph to more accurately reflect my point.

 

[CartyDurham]

it's also a good indication considering the poster in question that quantity certainly does not correlate with quality

I agree totally

 

[CartyDurham]

Imagine two CartyDurhams talking to each other. Due to politeness, every talking point would be conversed upon for eternity

That would be fun

it’s only chat. I’m courteous towards others. If they quote me in my world it’s ignorant not to reply

 

[Socerer 01]

Fair point, but it's still something they could have reviewed. Same thing happened in pak after Carey fell in the hotel pool, difference is Carey heard it then and convinced Cummins to review it.

My general point this whole time has been that there's far more obvious examples of things Stokes could have done, that he can control, during or before the game (like the bairstow/foakes situation) that had worse impact, smaller upside then the declaration (having TWO chances to bowl at australia with a >10 over old ball and fresh pacers when their bats haven't got in rather than one is a MASSIVE advantage on a flat deck).

It's double annoying seeing people go full revisionist and act like the call was bad at the time based on hindsight now under the whole "it cost England 50+ runs" argument when its just as likely England lose the last two wickets for >20 (root literally mistimed a slog the ball before the declaration and only got it a few inches past the ring fielder for two).

nobody's gone revisionist though? the same people who thought it was a bad decision then are the same ones saying it now

 

[CartyDurham]

Carty you're an awesome addition to this forum, your passion for cricket can't be denied and i'm sure you've found the right place here.
But you're gonna run out of juice at this rate, it's not necessary to respond to all quotes and not seen as rude if you dont.

Ok. I can’t resist

it will be scaled back at lords

 

[Nintendo]

For sure they would. PEWS has criticised the declaration from the start and well before the result was known.

I haven’t seen bazball before but I have to say the declarations have been the most controversial aspect for me. I hear the reasons for it and it’s part of the strategy but overall can’t see the pay off. I mean has a bazball declaration actually contributed to a win?

Pakistan at rawulpimdi, pink ball test vs nz in NZ are the obvious ones that come to mind.

 

[Spark]

It's double annoying seeing people go full revisionist and act like the call was bad at the time based on hindsight now under the whole "it cost England 50+ runs" argument when its just as likely England lose the last two wickets for >20 (root literally mistimed a slog the ball before the declaration and only got it a few inches past the ring fielder for two).

This is just flat out false dude. People were up in arms here the moment the declaration happened.

 

[Nintendo]

nobody's gone revisionist though? the same people who thought it was a bad decision then are the same ones saying it now

Wording was probably a bit off in that last bit, my b on that. Doesn't change the fact that theirs obvious upside to the declaration that people are ignoring and the negative effect of it being overplayed.