*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[Athlai]

Yeah but right now he's undeniably one of our best and unlike Boult currently plays for NZ

 

[SteveNZ]

Yeah but right now he's undeniably one of our best and unlike Boult currently plays for NZ

I hear this, but the wording I'm getting out of Stead suggests he's 100% going to ask, and Boult is very likely going to say yes in what he will see as his swansong for this country.

Honestly, I'd be happy if we said no to Boult. Say to any others that we understand if you jack it in for franchise cricket, but we're going to be consistent and not pick you ever - unless you live down the road for a Test and a lot of people are interested (if that unlikely situation ever happened....). Otherwise we look hypocritical if we keep saying we prefer nationally contracted players, then we select someone who hasn't been all summer.

 

[Zinzan]

Southee's been a poor ODI bowler ever since his 7-fer vs. England in 2015, and even before then he was just okay.


Here's the last 5 years ranked by ER (>10 wickets):





Southee's been no better than Neesham, Ferguson hasn't either but at least he's got that extra pace.

 

[SteveNZ]

Small sample size, but Southee averages 23.5 at around 5.4 RPO in 2022 and 2023, which I'd suggest is more relevant than five years ago numbers.

It's a tight one. If Boult doesn't play, Southee and Ferguson do. If Boult does, I think they'll go Ferguson for the extra pace and he's a better first change, given Henry now looks a really strong new ball option.

 

[Athlai]

We're not selecting for the 2019 WC ffs

 

[NZTailender]

We're not selecting for the 2019 WC ffs

Southees in the squad. Given Ferguson's form and injury it's a shoot out between him and southee for third seamer behind Boult and Henry.

Jamieson in the Boult pre2015 part of his ODI career. Could be absolutely gun.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Warning - selection meta ramblings ahead

There's always a balance of "Ask not what your team can do for you, but what you can do for your team" in elite sports, but it's obvious that current Blackcaps setup is leaning too far in the direction of the latter philosophy. It's like we've decided what our team structure is going to be before looking at the players we actually have available. I'm no management expert a good place to start would be getting some guys in with experience in making different team builds work - we have talent but our broader team strategy is going to have to change to accommodate the players we have rather than the players we wish we had. It's been great watching what England have done with Leach, for example. They tried for years to turn Moeen into the Unicorn but never quite worked. With all due respect to Leach, he's not exactly brimming with talent, but he's the best they have, and they've pulled some matchwinning performances out of him.

This isn't a call for us to BazBall our setup, but it is a call for us to be open minded about what future NZ teams might look like.

 

[thierry henry]

I’d just like to dispute Flem claiming that golf is the antithesis of T20. Surely golf is UberT20? They’ve literally gotten rid of the bowlers and refined it down to just batters and dingers.

 

[Flem274*]

I’d just like to dispute Flem claiming that golf is the antithesis of T20. Surely golf is UberT20? They’ve literally gotten rid of the bowlers and refined it down to just batters and dingers.

Golf is a very technical and challenging sport that is...fun...to play but I'd rather watch paint dry than watch golf on TV.

 

[Days of Grace]

I didn't realise we picked people from history. If so then let's get Bond and Hadlee in there too.

To be fair, if we’re picking Ferguson, we’re not picking him based on recent form. But I’ll acknowledge that Ferguson at his best is several times the bowler that Southee is in ODIs.

 

[SteveNZ]

I’d just like to dispute Flem claiming that golf is the antithesis of T20. Surely golf is UberT20? They’ve literally gotten rid of the bowlers and refined it down to just batters and dingers.

This is very true, but I also appreciate Flem's viewpoint that golf is incredibly boring on TV for anyone who isn't a connoisseur of the sport. They are 350-yard dingers now and the 280yd guys are becoming extinct, but that's not really discernably different for the casual viewer - like hitting homers versus forward defensives would be.

 

[Prince EWS]

Warning - selection meta ramblings ahead

There's always a balance of "Ask not what your team can do for you, but what you can do for your team" in elite sports, but it's obvious that current Blackcaps setup is leaning too far in the direction of the latter philosophy. It's like we've decided what our team structure is going to be before looking at the players we actually have available. I'm no management expert a good place to start would be getting some guys in with experience in making different team builds work - we have talent but our broader team strategy is going to have to change to accommodate the players we have rather than the players we wish we had. It's been great watching what England have done with Leach, for example. They tried for years to turn Moeen into the Unicorn but never quite worked. With all due respect to Leach, he's not exactly brimming with talent, but he's the best they have, and they've pulled some matchwinning performances out of him.

I agree with what you've said about Leach, but Moeen was better IMO. Not sure it's fair to say that it didn't work.

 

[Bahnz]

This is very true, but I also appreciate Flem's viewpoint that golf is incredibly boring on TV for anyone who isn't a connoisseur of the sport. They are 350-yard dingers now and the 280yd guys are becoming extinct, but that's not really discernably different for the casual viewer - like hitting homers versus forward defensives would be.

This truly is a beautiful glass house we live in.

 

[SteveNZ]

This truly is a beautiful glass house we live in.

Hey, Test cricket is boring AF too for non-purists. But **** them all, I'm lucky I was born with class, taste and an attention span.

Otherwise I'd watch MMA ?

 

[thierry henry]

Golf is hitting a ball into a hole, you start off doing big hits and as you get closer to the hole you do smaller hits. Yes it’s endlessly technical, but the dumbest person alive can easily understand what’s going on. Sometimes I feel like people take an obtuse pride in pretending sports are complicated or boring (whereas they’ll act like something genuinely complicated and tedious, like board games, are just tremendous fun).

 

[SteveNZ]

Not sure golf being boring on TV is an obtuse point of view there, TH. And you jumped from *watching* sport to *playing* board games.

 

[NZTailender]

 

[NZTailender]

What would your XIs be if you could only use a player in one format? Not necessarily the "best XI" but one you'd like to see play given the resources at your disposal to win a series in each format. (presumably not picking de Grandhomme)

Test XI
1. R Ravindra
2. D Conway
3. K Williamson
4. T Bruce
5. D Mitchell
6. T Blundell+
7. N Smith
8. K Jamieson
9. A Patel
10. T Boult
11. T Southee

ODI XI
1. G Worker
2. M Guptill
3. W Young
4. M Chapman
5. T Latham+
6. S Solia
7. J Clarkson
8. M Bracewell
9. H Shipley
10. M Henry
11. B Sears

T20I XI
1. C Bowes
2. F Allen
3. D Foxcroft
4. G Phillips
5. D Cleaver+
6. C McConchie
7. M Santner
8. I Sodhi
9. A Milne
10. J Duffy
11. L Ferguson

 

[Prince EWS]

What would your XIs be if you could only use a player in one format? Not necessarily the "best XI" but one you'd like to see play given the resources at your disposal to win a series in each format. (presumably not picking de Grandhomme)

Test XI
1. R Ravindra
2. D Conway
3. K Williamson
4. T Bruce
5. D Mitchell
6. T Blundell+
7. N Smith
8. K Jamieson
9. A Patel
10. T Boult
11. T Southee

ODI XI
1. G Worker
2. M Guptill
3. W Young
4. M Chapman
5. T Latham+
6. S Solia
7. J Clarkson
8. M Bracewell
9. H Shipley
10. M Henry
11. B Sears

T20I XI
1. C Bowes
2. F Allen
3. D Foxcroft
4. G Phillips
5. D Cleaver+
6. C McConchie
7. M Santner
8. I Sodhi
9. A Milne
10. J Duffy
11. L Ferguson

Great concept but then you took the fun out of it by posting three lineups that are very hard to argue with.

Nicholls somehow playing Tests and ODIs regularly despite quite justifiably being left out of that is glorious. Perhaps stiff to leave him out for Bruce, but it's too funny not to.

I'd probably still pick Neesham ahead of either Solia or McConchie though.

EDIT: Oh and also - Dougeh.

 

[CricAddict]

Great concept but then you took the fun out of it by posting three lineups that are very hard to argue with.

Nicholls somehow playing Tests and ODIs regularly despite quite justifiably being left out of that is glorious. Perhaps stiff to leave him out for Bruce, but it's too funny not to.

I'd probably still pick Neesham ahead of either Solia or McConchie though.

EDIT: Oh and also - Dougeh.

Tickner also a hard leave while he is now playing all 3 formats for NZ.