*Official* Australia in India 2023

[OverratedSanity]

And the same applies to the batsman too. A lot of players averaged in the low to mid 40s in the 1990s for example, if they played now they might be averaging close to 50.

Is this a joke? This is arguably an even more bowler friendly era than the 90s were.

 

[Shri]

Ashwin would have been like Kumble and been considered good to very good (if he played on flat pitches)

Ashwin would be closer to 30 and we would not consider him ATG at all.

uh he took 6/91 on a road so he will average 30?

 

[Gob]

The same players we call great can easily fall down a tier or two if pitches were different in their entire career.

'Greats' would have been 'very good' or just 'good'.

Ashwin would have been like Kumble and been considered good to very good (if he played on flat pitches)

Smith would been considered 'very good' instead of 'great' (if he played on green tops/tough pitches all/most the time)

Kohli could be just 'good' or 'average' rather than whatever he is right now, if he had always played on raging turners. On the contrary, if he had mostly batted on roads, he would be averaging like 54 and he would be considered great! 'Wow what a player'

It seems all this labelling is Bull****. I feel pitch is KING. Pitches make or break a player or make someone great or not great!

???

So would everyone else to ****ing play

 

[slippy888]

Just want to see Kholi score a 100 in this match i dont care about the result of the game really like a draw.

 

[silentstriker]

While I want Kohli to make a huge hundred for the sake of this game, I honestly don't think he has much Test cricket left and a big hundred will keep him around for a while longer which I am not sure is to the benefit of the Test team. But hey, if this is the start of another resurgence, I'm all for it.

 

[Nintendo]

While I want Kohli to make a huge hundred for the sake of this game, I honestly don't think he has much Test cricket left and a big hundred will keep him around for a while longer which I am not sure is to the benefit of the Test team. But hey, if this is the start of another resurgence, I'm all for it.

What does India's schedule look like in the near future? I remember someone saying that your touring SA soon and o feel like an NZ tour should be in the somewhat near future. If Kohli can get his mojo back there's noene else in India bar pant I would back to make runs in those conditions.

 

[Burgey]

It is probably legal to use offshore betting sites

If that was the case though you’d think there would be no need for the illegal bookies who’ve gone so far towards ruining the sport

 

[Burgey]

depends on the state. online gambling legal for now but laws are probably coming soon to ban them

Stupid really. If it’s legal it’s easier to stop fixing.

 

[Arachnodouche]

While I want Kohli to make a huge hundred for the sake of this game, I honestly don't think he has much Test cricket left and a big hundred will keep him around for a while longer which I am not sure is to the benefit of the Test team. But hey, if this is the start of another resurgence, I'm all for it.

He can still be invaluable to the transition ahead if he can regain even 50% of his peak. There's no doubting his work ethic and general pedigree. He can only be a good role model to the newer crop.

 

[centurymaker]

He took 6 wkts in the 1st innings. Why are you under rating him ?
If we regularly produce flat wkts, then Ashwin’s batting average will also go up .

I know this is not good timing but in another innings on a road, he may have had figures of 2/110. I am not saying he would average 30, but closer to 30. Around 27 or 28. And we would then think of him little differently. So our perception of a player changes based on their career figures... even though most of the success any player has had is due to the pitches they have had. Thats the only point I am making.

And yes that applies to every freaking player. If Sutcliffe didn't play on roads, we wouldn't even know him today. If Smith had an average of 52 (because he played on difficult pitches) instead of 59 right now, would we go around calling him undisputably the best test batsman in the world? (even though averaging 52 would be even more impressive over a career with 'mostly tough wickets'). Pitches change and so does the career averages and so does our perception of a player. We consciously/subconsciously give too much weight to career figures when they are nothing but a product of the prevailing conditions.
52 > 59, yet large majority wouldn't rate him as highly as now.

Kohli, Pujara and company have been averaging 27-33 and we are like they are absolutely useless. If their pitches in the last 3-4 yrs had been more typical to the flat subcontinent conditions, I am certain they would be averaging a lot higher in these years.. at least 40 and few would be calling their heads. Therefore pitches are determining a lot yet we go around calling players all sort of things and judging them in all sorts of ways. I think we are pretty stupid tbh.

 

[centurymaker]

Anyway, if India doesn't get bowled out, should India declare late in the day or should they bat on into day 5?

 

[ZK$]

I know this is not good timing but in another innings on a road, he may have had figures of 2/110. I am not saying he would average 30, but closer to 30. Around 27 or 28. And we would then think of him little differently. So our perception of a player changes based on their career figures... even though most of the success any player has had is due to the pitches they have had. Thats the only point I am making.

And yes that applies to every freaking player. If Sutcliffe didn't play on roads, we wouldn't even know him today. If Smith had an average of 52 (because he played on difficult pitches) instead of 59 right now, would we go around calling him undisputably the best test batsman in the world? (even though averaging 52 would be even more impressive over a career with 'mostly tough wickets'). Pitches change and so does the career averages and so does our perception of a player. We consciously/subconsciously give too much weight to career figures when they are nothing but a product of the prevailing conditions.
52 > 59, yet large majority wouldn't rate him as highly as now.

Kohli, Pujara and company have been averaging 27-33 and we are like they are absolutely useless. If their pitches in the last 3-4 yrs had been more typical to the flat subcontinent conditions, I am certain they would be averaging a lot higher in these years.. at least 40 and few would be calling their heads. Therefore pitches are determining a lot yet we go around calling players all sort of things and judging them in all sorts of ways. I think we are pretty stupid tbh.

A lot of batsmen from South Africa and England tend to get underrated due to their home conditions as well. Amla averaged only 46, but he’d probably average over 50 if he played his home games in Australia/Asia. Cook gets rated a tier below Hayden and Sehwag even though the main reason his average is lower was just his home conditions being a lot tougher.

 

[ZK$]

What does India's schedule look like in the near future? I remember someone saying that your touring SA soon and o feel like an NZ tour should be in the somewhat near future. If Kohli can get his mojo back there's noene else in India bar pant I would back to make runs in those conditions.

We have the WTC final in England, two tests in the West Indies, and two tests in South Africa. I’m not sure if Kohli will do well in these conditions tbh. I’m confident he’ll score a lot of runs next year when England, New Zealand, and Bangladesh tour India though.

 

[Line and Length]

If Sutcliffe didn't play on roads, we wouldn't even know him today.

Where were the 'roads' in 1924-1935?

In the 24/25 Ashes series in Australia there were results in all 5 Tests with Australia winning 4-1. On 8 occasions sides were dismissed for under 300 yet Sutcliffe scored 734 runs @ 81.56 (including 4 'tons').
In 1926 the first 4 Ashes Tests were 3 day games with rain a factor. Not surprisingly they were drawn. The 5th and deciding Test (a 4 day fixture) was won by England with Sutcliffe scoring 76 in a total of 280 and then 161 in the second innings when England made 436. Australia was dismissed for 302 and 125. Doesn't sound like The Oval was a 'road' yet Sutcliffe averages 76.67 in the series.
I could go on, but the picture is obvious. Trying to dismiss past greats with sweeping generalisations without examining the facts is not recommended.

 

[Nintendo]

Anyway, if India doesn't get bowled out, should India declare late in the day or should they bat on into day 5?

Depends on how this NZ/Sri Lanka test goes imo. India can just bat through the first session and a bit no matter what, if it looks like Sri Lanka have the advantage over NZ at the end of that games play go a bit faster and aim for a declaration with 4ish sessions left, if nz look like there gonna beat SL just bat it out till the end of the day, make Aus bat 3 sessions tommorow while 100+ ahead ideally. This assumes India bats all of today and doesn't collapse of course.

 

[Xix2565]

I know this is not good timing but in another innings on a road, he may have had figures of 2/110. I am not saying he would average 30, but closer to 30. Around 27 or 28. And we would then think of him little differently. So our perception of a player changes based on their career figures... even though most of the success any player has had is due to the pitches they have had. Thats the only point I am making.

It's a valid point that you are twisting to drag Ashwin down for no reason. Ashwin himself has done well on flatter wickets in the past, so why are you saying he'd average close to 30 when that's not been shown to be the case at all? If you want to say you think Ashwin is overrated just say so instead of resorting to dumb arguments to try to 'prove' it.

 

[the big bambino]

I don't think his point is valid anyway. If conditions are different the better players will still come out ahead. Their averages might change but they'll still be comparatively ahead of the rest so their reputations remain intact.

 

[R!TTER]

Oz should be penalized for that one over they didn't bowl yesterday! Unless of course they end up bowling 91 today ?

Anyway, if India doesn't get bowled out, should India declare late in the day or should they bat on into day 5?

This team is highly conservative! They'll try to bat just once ?

 

[Shady Slim]

huge credit to shubman even if it was a road, it's daunting when your batting lineup has been shonky and the opp puts up 500

 

[centurymaker]

I doubt India will bat significantly faster today. Kohli and Jadeja are conservative players thesedays.

India needed Pant to set up this game (or Shastri )