*Official* England in NZ 2023

[nzfan]

Kane could do worse than indulge in a little Bazball. Athlais stats mask the truth somewhat - he's mostly dined out on helpless Pakistanis and West Indians. He's a far cry from the player he was 2013-2017 or so.

I saw the dismissal on the news. Just smash it. If Ian McPeake bowls that ball to KW its 4 runs.

Something has been bothering Kane. Not sure why he's lost so much confidence, he's still one of the very best. As a matter of fact his dad is in town as well, his old man is a visionary. He pretty much taught him to score of good balls. Now Kane bats to survive and like everything in the world depends on how he bats. The reality is it doesn't.

From what I hear from the camp Kane has had so many of his past coaches try and help him. Some I wouldn't even think are even capable of giving him any advise. Just because they were his coaches when he started his international career and he was having success doesn't mean help from them is useful anymore. The good old cradle theory of hitting the ball, the footwork, see off the new ball, build foundation etc won't cut anymore. The game has moved on. He played his best cricket when he took it like a game not life and death ie a platform to celebrate his ability and nothing more. It's getting a bit too complicated now his thoughts I feel. He doesn't need technique work, he needs to chill. Experience has made him worse probably and he sees the pitfalls at every corner I guess. Now the teams don't take out the 3 slips and the gully for a very long time for Kane as he barely hits a ball. He's lost in his world of survival in all formats of the game, even in t20s. His batting could be becoming result oriented rather than staying in that moment.

It’s not an easy batting on these decks but at the same time you can’t afford to make it too complicated. If you do complicate it more than a bat/ ball game before you know it, you’d have completely forgotten how to bat. It's a delicate balance, can't crave too much but can't relax too much either. He'll get over this, just a matter of time. Has happened to the best. Greg Chappell once went through 7 innings without scoring a run. When he did open his account went on to score an outstanding hundred and never looked back ever again.

I believe his best years are ahead. Its a matter of finding that balance.

 

[slippy888]

Guys I apologize for any rude language I done in this thread but sometimes it has to be done you know.

 

[CricAddict]

Guys I apologize for any rude language I done in this thread but sometimes it has to be done you know.

No worries Slippy. Apology accepted.

 

[Socerer 01]

No worries Slippy. Apology accepted.

its the classic apologising non-apology

 

[Ashes81]

Another good day for England with NZ's only chance now being the weather.

A great knock from Root then it was over to the World's best bowler to rip through the top order.

Good work from Leach as well - he does a solid job for us and goes under the radar a touch.

 

[slippy888]

I'm laid back sort of guy guys but some people just make you snap sometimes

 

[NZTailender]

Something has been bothering Kane. Not sure why he's lost so much confidence, he's still one of the very best. As a matter of fact his dad is in town as well, his old man is a visionary. He pretty much taught him to score of good balls. Now Kane bats to survive and like everything in the world depends on how he bats. The reality is it doesn't.

From what I hear from the camp Kane has had so many of his past coaches try and help him. Some I wouldn't even think are even capable of giving him any advise. Just because they were his coaches when he started his international career and he was having success doesn't mean help from them is useful anymore. The good old cradle theory of hitting the ball, the footwork, see off the new ball, build foundation etc won't cut anymore. The game has moved on. He played his best cricket when he took it like a game not life and death ie a platform to celebrate his ability and nothing more. It's getting a bit too complicated now his thoughts I feel. He doesn't need technique work, he needs to chill. Experience has made him worse probably and he sees the pitfalls at every corner I guess. Now the teams don't take out the 3 slips and the gully for a very long time for Kane as he barely hits a ball. He's lost in his world of survival in all formats of the game, even in t20s. His batting could be becoming result oriented rather than staying in that moment.

It’s not an easy batting on these decks but at the same time you can’t afford to make it too complicated. If you do complicate it more than a bat/ ball game before you know it, you’d have completely forgotten how to bat. It's a delicate balance, can't crave too much but can't relax too much either. He'll get over this, just a matter of time. Has happened to the best. Greg Chappell once went through 7 innings without scoring a run. When he did open his account went on to score an outstanding hundred and never looked back ever again.

I believe his best years are ahead. Its a matter of finding that balance.

Random thought but I think he'd also benefit from having a consistent run in the side without injuries which has seen him miss quite a few tests in recent times. For context, I was looking at his last 10 tests, in which time he's hit two double centuries. But the first of those two, going back ten tests, was 2 years ago. I feel like England and India play 10 tests a week.

 

[G. S. Kohli]

I'm laid back sort of guy guys but some people just make you snap sometimes

Ya.....history witnessed NZ struggle in 2nd innings vs Pak/SL & India here at wellington
Although vs SL in 2015 test Nz won impossible game when Sangakara hits DBL after NZ fold for under 225.Second innings KW 242 & BJW 142 ruin Lankan party as SL lost on day 5

Vs pak Home team managed 190 all out

Vs india nz team 100 all out

Kapil Dev
16 4 34 4
Roger Binny
12 4 26 2
Ravi Shastri
3 0 9 3
Sandeep Patil
17 10 12 1

Nz cricket board gave award to patil for his innings of 64 & his bowling.

 

[mackembhoy]

nobody would have said Duckett, Pope and Brook would have been this good before being picked. hell Bairstow was supposed to be a meme pick for still being there in the early days

Bazball’s strength is in making cricketers lesser than the sum of their parts better as a whole, Phillips can be vital to the team in a role that he is comfortable with which Bazball will no doubt provide

Brook was averaging over 100 in the championship a lot wanted him in the side instead of Bairstow who then proceeded to have the summer of his lifetime.

Pope should have been doing a lot better prior to McCullum. Duckett wasn't even being mentioned as potential opener.

 

[SteveNZ]

Sooo Harry Brook and these others were unheralded pre bazball. Like, if you picked Ben Duckett to be a revelation then you're nostradamus.

I don't think we need to start yeeting, but a bit of KW 2015 looking to score every ball would be nice. He's turned himself into Pujara stylistically.

Harry Brook averaged **** tons in the Championship, he's always been an incredible ball striker. We don't have a Harry Brook.

To be fair, I think a strong leader like Brendon would get more out of us, because so many guys are mentally off. We wouldn't start scoring at 6s, but we might get better output from guys who have forgotten how to bat long periods. Latham, classic example. A mental shell of himself in Tests for a long time, if he didn't read his press about scoring no runs v big sides I'd be surprised. Conway, no issue. Kane, wearing the weight of this side on his shoulders without decent back-up. Will Young, so talented but has been **** on by selectors. Nicholls, still not sure about his game but has shown he can score runs when he's on. Mitchell, can go big. Blundell, absolute gun.

And something Brendon would also do is not pick a team with eleven 30 year olds +. No chance. He'd be pushing the Shipleys, the Ravindras, talking these young guys up and bringing them into an environment when he can (ala Rehan Ahmed in Pakistan) to get them comfortable, and back them to the hilt.

 

[Brook's side]

Think England will be enforcing the follow on if they get the chance.

Weather looking pretty bad for the rest of the game.

 

[SteveNZ]

Think England will be enforcing the follow on if they get the chance.

Weather looking pretty bad for the rest of the game.

Yeah,I heard someone (Bond I think) saying England probably wouldn't. Even with no weather, I reckon this side backs itself to bowl us out again and play golf on Tuesday (if not Monday). They're on a plane in a couple of days, so no issues with fatigue

 

[Howe_zat]

All things being equal you should only really enforce the follow on if you have to. It's so much easier bat quickly in the 3rd innings setting a target than it is chasing one down, and much easier to take wickets in the 4th innings with fresh bowlers and using whatever deterioration might be there.

In this case it's got more going for it because of the weather breaks, but it's a pretty high bar to clear in general, and hopefully there's at most one more session lost to rain.

 

[Binkley]

If anyone knows how the Basin becomes easier to bat on, it is Baz. Given the forecast I bet he is tempted to make NZ follow-on while the conditions are better suited for bowling, knowing that by the 4th innings it will be like batting on a road.

 

[nzfan]

Harry Brook averaged **** tons in the Championship, he's always been an incredible ball striker. We don't have a Harry Brook.

To be fair, I think a strong leader like Brendon would get more out of us, because so many guys are mentally off. We wouldn't start scoring at 6s, but we might get better output from guys who have forgotten how to bat long periods. Latham, classic example. A mental shell of himself in Tests for a long time, if he didn't read his press about scoring no runs v big sides I'd be surprised. Conway, no issue. Kane, wearing the weight of this side on his shoulders without decent back-up. Will Young, so talented but has been **** on by selectors. Nicholls, still not sure about his game but has shown he can score runs when he's on. Mitchell, can go big. Blundell, absolute gun.

And something Brendon would also do is not pick a team with eleven 30 year olds +. No chance. He'd be pushing the Shipleys, the Ravindras, talking these young guys up and bringing them into an environment when he can (ala Rehan Ahmed in Pakistan) to get them comfortable, and back them to the hilt.

In the South Africa series last year, a question was asked to Brendan and Fleming about the make up of the side. They both said they'd have played Ravindra ahead of CDG and Ajaz Patel in the side as their main spinner. That too when the deck was green and CDG was in great touch because they knew what was coming and could take a punt. There's no doubt if we had Sears, Phillips in the squad they'd have preferred them too. They have an eye for talent.

Recently was reading Ponting's book and he mentioned he'd pick a player based on

How many good knocks have come under pressure
How do they cope vs tougher opponent and conditions
How quickly they pick the length
Can they play short ball
Can they play pace and spin equally well

That's his criteria which makes sense because he reckons if you've made first class cricket and played for few years obviously you're good enough and he says he can pick a player seeing them play like 5-10 balls

I think our younger players particularly Will Young would have benefited plenty if we had someone like Baz or Ponting.

 

[nzfan]

Think England will be enforcing the follow on if they get the chance.

Weather looking pretty bad for the rest of the game.

It was pouring all night but today's forecast is very good. Not sure if the game will start on time though, the outfield must be wet.

 

[nzfan]

While at it our one day and t20 sides also require reset and refresh. Similar policies of picking players just because they've turned 30 has been rampant. We'll have a shocker of a tourney later this year in India if something is not done now. It'll be too late otherwise.

We are so far behind some of the enterprising one day sides at the moment.

 

[Howe_zat]

Two (really difficult) drops and 17 runs in the opening two overs. This game is always in a different place from where you left it.

 

[Howe_zat]

I apologise for my arrogance in discussing the follow on. Clearly Southee is nailed on for a hundred, etc, etc..

 

[Flem274*]

Southees annual bat properlyish knock might be today.