*Official* England in NZ 2023

[SteveNZ]

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

“Since Trent chose to up to give up his contract ... we've made it pretty clear that that priority would go to others and that's the way it's gone," Stead added.

“It's not saying that we've ruled Trent out completely for anything in the future. There will be ongoing discussions.

“We're not sure what the landscape of the cricket world might look like. In six months time it might look slightly different again."

How could the landscape change from here, where the guy is living 800m down the road, isn't playing, is fresh and we're desperate for bowlers? Or should I be cynical and suggest that's Stead allowing himself to pick him for the World Cup, when the 'landscape' has changed?

You either pick him now or never, for me.

 

[Moss]

What a fall from grace from the world beaters of 2021 when we were spoiled for choice in the 2 Test England series, following by the WTC final to now.

In fact IIRC Henry was MOTM in the 2nd Test win (1-0 series win) against England but couldn't force his way into the WTC final XI.

Now we're discussing the like of Dacewell who hasn't performed in Tests for over a decade along with Duffy & Tickner.

All this vs an England Test team on the rise... hard to think this isn't going to be a bloodbath unless weather intervenes.

Yeah, find myself wondering "how did it come to this?" for every update that comes out. Very 2008 vibes for this series. At least then Bond was un-selectable because of that whole ICL thing.

 

[jcas0167]

The other extreme was in 2002 when they picked 20 year old Ian Butler to replace Bond against England just months after Butler had made his first class debut. Under that approach they might have picked Kristian Clarke or Shipley.

 

[Flem274*]

Mike Hesson has interesting people skills, but damn he had a nose for a player and understood how to build depth. Edgar too.

One of his most underrated achievements was building two good ODI bowling attacks for the 2015 WC in 3 years (Boult, Southee, Milne, Vettori, Anderson + Mills, Henry, McClenaghan, NcCullum, Neesham). A lot of those guys fell away but you expect to have player churn.

What we didn't do under Stead and Larsen was plan ahead. At all.* We got away with it for a while.

*Unless it's investing in Michael Bracewell as a leading spinner, then it must occur at all costs.

 

[jcas0167]

Yeah, Hesson made some good calls early on bringing in Neesham, Anderson, Mitch McC and moved on from Franklin and Oram. Larsen and Stead are a bit unfortunate that the bowlers coming through in Tickner, Duffy aren't in the same league as Southee/Boult. Maybe they could have done more to promote Sears? I see Fisher and Lister went on the A tour last year although Fisher has had injury problems.

 

[Howe_zat]

And that’s before considering his….off-field history.

England could score 700 against this attack.

All this vs an England Test team on the rise... hard to think this isn't going to be a bloodbath unless weather intervenes.

I appreciate this sentiment. Set against that is England's record in overseas pink ball tests, of which they've played five and had an average team score of 177.

This is the stoppable force against the moveable object.

 

[nzfan]

I don’t know if it would hold up at all, legally and what not. But could NZC when it comes to selecting Under 19 teams, get them signing contracts where they are committed to New Zealand cricket for say 10 years. I mean NZC invest a lot of money into them, can’t have guys at 21/22 taking off and all that investment.

I don’t know many kids that age that would say nah I’ll go it on my own thanks.

I guess first let them pay the first class players proper money. NZC does not invest much in the u19 sides. They kids grown up in provinces and from the performances they get selected. NZC may organize maybe one or two camps max and expects the region to invest in them which also is not very robust. Currently the players are making these age group sides thanks to their parents and their own dedication. An hour's coaching from a professional coach these days are like $80 to $100. If NZC had a chance they would cut the 17s and the 19s first.

 

[Zinzan]

I appreciate this sentiment. Set against that is England's record in overseas pink ball tests, of which they've played five and had an average team score of 177.

This is the stoppable force against the moveable object.

England haven't played a pink ball Test under the Stokes/McCullum regime though so their pink ball history prior to that doesn't feel relevant to me. All will be revealed shortly if the weather plays nice.

 

[Gremlin]

England naming the side that everyone predicted they would.

 

[Starfighter]

As much as it disgusts me I'm leaning well towards England here. With the injuries and absences I don't think NZ's bowling is strong enough,

 

[Howe_zat]

Cricinfo's team graphic claims the series is part of the WTC, but that's a mistake right?

 

[Chewie]

You used to get contracts in professional services where you had to sign up to X years or repay the investment that the firm had made in you. I guess those contract were legal at the time (or weren't complained about as the youngster needs the job and doesn't have the $ to make a legal hoo-haa over it).

You still get it - very common for chartered accountants to be 'bonded' for a couple of years after completing their CA (because the firm will have paid all the CA costs), or similar with lawyers and their Profs

 

[Bahnz]

What a fall from grace from the world beaters of 2021 when we were spoiled for choice in the 2 Test England series, following by the WTC final to now.

In fact IIRC Henry was MOTM in the 2nd Test win (1-0 series win) against England but couldn't force his way into the WTC final XI.

Now we're discussing the like of Dacewell who hasn't performed in Tests for over a decade along with Duffy & Tickner.

All this vs an England Test team on the rise... hard to think this isn't going to be a bloodbath unless weather intervenes.

Eh… maybe but it’s worth noting that the surfaces in this series will be VERY different to the ones where England have piled up mountains of runs over the last 6 months.

of course a hyper attacking approach might well be a good option (as McCullum showed v Aus in 2016), but it’s definitely more of a double edged sword here than it was last June.

 

[Ashes81]

Slightly strange build up to this series with Cyclone Gabrielle and the NZ bowling options being decimated.

Not a big fan of day night tests to be honest but it is what it is.

Assuming the weather doesn't interfere too much, NZ being without Henry and Jamieson, and not picking Boult could prove decisive.

We've picked the side you'd expect - our seam bowling looks strong but you never quite know what our batting is going to produce but I do fancy us to win this one.

 

[Zinzan]

Eh… maybe but it’s worth noting that the surfaces in this series will be VERY different to the ones where England have piled up mountains of runs over the last 6 months.

of course a hyper attacking approach might well be a good option (as McCullum showed v Aus in 2016), but it’s definitely more of a double edged sword here than it was last June.

We see fairly soon who's right.

 

[NZTailender]

According to a Cricinfo article, Stead chose kuggleijn and Duffy for their "resilience"

Could this man be any more conservative

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I've thought about this overnight in the context of what Kuggeleijn admitted to in court. Here's a direct quote (published by the Herald) with the Herald's context supplied:

When asked about the complainant's evidence that she said "no" "dozens of times", he said it was "a lie". "I tried [having ***] twice, like she might have said 'no, no' a few times but it wasn't dozens of times."

How many nos should be sufficient? How many nos would be required for Kuggeleijn to be pissed off if his batting partner continued to run after being told no?

I cannot support a team with this man in it. Call it sanctimonious or self-righteous if you like, but what he admitted to and which didn't meet the required standard for criminal conviction is still ethically unacceptable. I have two daughters and would like them to know they can live in a world where a single no is sufficient. (EDIT: I should add, even if I didn't have daughters I still think if one has any desire to respect women then this isn't acceptable)

 

[Flem274*]

I can confirm that while he was found not guilty, supporting Kuggeleijn is an interesting moral decision.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

I didn't think it was possible for me to not want to see England fail, but in selecting that sack of **** NZ have found a way

 

[Bahnz]

According to a Cricinfo article, Stead chose kuggleijn and Duffy for their "resilience"

Could this man be any more conservative