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Test batsmen and bowlers peaks. Criteria: At least 5 years and at least 40 innings
- Thread starter Days of Grace
- Start date
Coronis
International Coach
Mm better peak perhaps, but Freeman did take 500 more wickets than him in 40 less matches, at a better average.
Parker only started bowling spin after WW1 aged 37, so age was one factor. His pre-war career as a left-arm medium-pacer had been unremarkable.
Fairly quick for a left-arm spinner and very accurate, Parker was sometimes labelled a wet-wicket specialist, which was probably unfair. It was said he didn't like being attacked, unlike the flightier, even older, Rhodes with whom he was in competition. He couldn't bat like Rhodes either.
A communist sympathiser, Parker had a fiery temperament, criticised the selectors in public, and even grabbed one of them by the lapels. This didn't help his cause.
There was a general feeling at the time that Parker was a high-class bowler who should have played more Tests. There was not quite the same feeling about Freeman.
Fairly quick for a left-arm spinner and very accurate, Parker was sometimes labelled a wet-wicket specialist, which was probably unfair. It was said he didn't like being attacked, unlike the flightier, even older, Rhodes with whom he was in competition. He couldn't bat like Rhodes either.
A communist sympathiser, Parker had a fiery temperament, criticised the selectors in public, and even grabbed one of them by the lapels. This didn't help his cause.
There was a general feeling at the time that Parker was a high-class bowler who should have played more Tests. There was not quite the same feeling about Freeman.
All-rounders with 10,000 runs and 500 wickets in first-class cricket during a five-year timeframe:
Hirst (Nov 1903-Sep 1908) / 10653 runs, average 43.48 / 848 wickets @ 17.21 / 22 centuries. 121 catches.
Rhodes (May 1907-Feb 1912) / 11074 runs, average 34.28 / 690 wickets @ 19.10 / 21 centuries. 132 catches.
Woolley (May 1920-March 1925) / 12389 runs, average 41.15 / 764 wickets @ 18.40 / 33 centuries. 240 catches.
Procter (Nov 1969-Sep 1974) / 10266 runs, average 44.82 / 502 wickets @ 18.43 / 31 centuries. 137 catches.
10,000 runs and 500 wicket-keeping dismissals:
Ames (Oct 1928-Sep 1933) / 12329 runs, average 43.56 / 541 dismissals (283 ct, 258 st) / 35 centuries.
5,000 runs and 300 wickets with no county cricket:
Giffen (Nov 1891-Oct 1896) / 5339 runs, average 34.00 / 458 wickets @ 21.49 / 10 centuries. 94 catches.
Noble (12 Nov 1897-11 Nov 1902) / 5565 runs, average 36.85 / 371 wickets @ 21.91 / 13 centuries. 84 catches.
Armstrong (Nov 1904-Sep 1909) / 5992 runs, average 52.10 / 353 wickets @ 18.26 / 18 centuries. 98 catches.
Sobers (Nov 1961-Sep 1966) / 7707 runs, average 60.68 / 380 wickets @ 24.89 / 27 centuries. 111 catches.
Hirst (Nov 1903-Sep 1908) / 10653 runs, average 43.48 / 848 wickets @ 17.21 / 22 centuries. 121 catches.
Rhodes (May 1907-Feb 1912) / 11074 runs, average 34.28 / 690 wickets @ 19.10 / 21 centuries. 132 catches.
Woolley (May 1920-March 1925) / 12389 runs, average 41.15 / 764 wickets @ 18.40 / 33 centuries. 240 catches.
Procter (Nov 1969-Sep 1974) / 10266 runs, average 44.82 / 502 wickets @ 18.43 / 31 centuries. 137 catches.
10,000 runs and 500 wicket-keeping dismissals:
Ames (Oct 1928-Sep 1933) / 12329 runs, average 43.56 / 541 dismissals (283 ct, 258 st) / 35 centuries.
5,000 runs and 300 wickets with no county cricket:
Giffen (Nov 1891-Oct 1896) / 5339 runs, average 34.00 / 458 wickets @ 21.49 / 10 centuries. 94 catches.
Noble (12 Nov 1897-11 Nov 1902) / 5565 runs, average 36.85 / 371 wickets @ 21.91 / 13 centuries. 84 catches.
Armstrong (Nov 1904-Sep 1909) / 5992 runs, average 52.10 / 353 wickets @ 18.26 / 18 centuries. 98 catches.
Sobers (Nov 1961-Sep 1966) / 7707 runs, average 60.68 / 380 wickets @ 24.89 / 27 centuries. 111 catches.
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Coronis
International Coach
Did Grace ever come close? I can never find/remember his season by season stats.
The closest he came was between 15 May 1871 and 10 May 1876:
9226 runs, average 55.57 / 551 wickets @ 13.62 / 33 centuries. 164 catches + 4 stumpings.
His bowling was more impressive between 15 May 1873 and 14 May 1878:
9167 runs, average 49.28 / 727 wickets @ 14.12 / 26 centuries. 191 catches.
Coronis
International Coach
Migara
International Coach
We don't know.
We could say the same about Shakib and Samaraweera. One took only the batting to test standard while other took both to it. Infact Samaraweera was far better all rounder in FC than Shakib.
Coronis
International Coach
If only some overrated off spinner hadn’t been chewing up all the overs he woulda been fine
A personal view, no more, is that there was little to separate them. When they played together for the World XI in WSC Supertests, Procter took 50 wickets @ 22 and Imran 72 @ 23. Imran's batting was better there, averaging 26 to Procter's 15. Imran was six years younger, but the batting stats may confirm a rumour that Procter was not always comfortable facing the fastest bowling. Imran was very solid against the quicks, refusing to back away and ready to criticise those who did.
Adding to Procter's official Test record the WSC Supertests, RoW v England in 1970, and one "Rebel Test" in 1982, he has 106 wickets @ 20.05 and averages 20.41 with the bat.
Unlike Imran, Procter threw everything into county cricket, realising it would be his biggest stage. During the early 1970s he was widely recognised as the best cricketer in the country. His captaincy was mostly about leading by example, lacking perhaps Imran's more rounded qualities. Procter was the better fielder, excelling in the slips.
Coronis
International Coach
Did Imran score all 6 of his test tons consecutively? Just wondering
Migara
International Coach
Imran as bowler alone has done more than Proctor as an all rounder. Imran and Hadlee as bowlers alone trump a;most all all rounders in test history. Proctor may have been better with the bat, I would give benefit of the doubt, but Imran has shown he as a bowler alone had been better than great all rounders of the past.
Coronis
International Coach
Of course he did in tests, we were merely talking about the potential of his full career. He clearly showed his potential as an ATG bowler, and was roughly around the same level as Imran in FC and County batting, so yeah sure, I do believe he had that potential to be a top 10 cricketer had he had a full international career.
Your WSC numbers are wrong. They only played a few tests each. Wicket count is way too high.
trundler
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Every great all rounder looks like a god in FC but then has to focus on one discipline at the expense of the other in tests because of the gulf in quality between tests and FC, regardless of the FC competition. Miller averaged 50+ with bat in FC, as did Noble despite playing pre-War and Hadlee averaged close to 40 with the bat in CC too. Greig is the only one who bucks this trend but his career spanned only 5 years. 36/19 isn't a particularly impressive average split by ATG all rounder standards. Based on those numbers he'd probably be in the same mould as Pollock/Hadlee in tests. Had a lot more big knocks though so he may have been closer to Dev/Cairns but there's an approximately nil chance of him being the mythical 40/25 unicorn. That would require a level of ability exceeding Sobers, Imran, Miller and every other ATG. Botham is the only one who managed it but he ended up at 32/28 anyway. Miller is the closest over his career which is why I rate him so highly. Peak Imran too obviously.
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smash84
The Tiger King
I liked that post but I thought the same, but was wondering if I was wrong. I think Imran played 5 tests and had 25 wickets in total. Procter played a similar number I think
You are both right [Bolo and smash84] and I was wrong. Thanks for pointing out. I included some limited-overs matches in error.
In Supertests only, should read: Procter 14 wickets @16, Imran 25 wickets @ 20. Procter averaged 30 with the bat, Imran 21.
Adding the other official and unofficial Tests for Procter, he now has 70 wickets @ 17, and averages 31 with the bat. His batting now looks better than it did.