Test batsmen and bowlers peaks. Criteria: At least 5 years and at least 40 innings

[Migara]

Super tests were played in conditions where Proctor was bred for bowling on. Many of those great FC bowlers sweat and fail on Asian wickets. Imran conquered both. I would always guard against interpreting FC performance in to tests. Always remember Samaraweera 48.6 / 23.4, Dharmasena 36.3 / 20.8, Kalpage 34.6 / 22.7 as example. If you need bit more examples Lewis 30.7 / 29.9, Andrew Hall 35 / 27.9, Ealham 32/28, Prabhakar 41.5 / 28.9

I may have missed some spin bowling all rounders too.

 

[Bolo.]

Super tests were played in conditions where Proctor was bred for bowling on. Many of those great FC bowlers sweat and fail on Asian wickets. Imran conquered both. I would always guard against interpreting FC performance in to tests. Always remember Samaraweera 48.6 / 23.4, Dharmasena 36.3 / 20.8, Kalpage 34.6 / 22.7 as example. If you need bit more examples Lewis 30.7 / 29.9, Andrew Hall 35 / 27.9, Ealham 32/28, Prabhakar 41.5 / 28.9

I may have missed some spin bowling all rounders too.

Proctor was bowling mostly offspin in WSC. Offspin and AUS isn't exactly a dream match up.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Imran and Procter have a very comparable overall record in first class cricket. Would Procter have been a top 10 cricketer ever if he got a proper test career like Imran?

Imran is a top 10 player

Procter was
Comparable Bowler
Better Batsman
Far Better Fielder

Greatest cricketer in last 50 years ?

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

A personal view, no more, is that there was little to separate them. When they played together for the World XI in WSC Supertests, Procter took 50 wickets @ 22 and Imran 72 @ 23. Imran's batting was better there, averaging 26 to Procter's 15. Imran was six years younger, but the batting stats may confirm a rumour that Procter was not always comfortable facing the fastest bowling. Imran was very solid against the quicks, refusing to back away and ready to criticise those who did.

Adding to Procter's official Test record the WSC Supertests, RoW v England in 1970, and one "Rebel Test" in 1982, he has 106 wickets @ 20.05 and averages 20.41 with the bat.

Unlike Imran, Procter threw everything into county cricket, realising it would be his biggest stage. During the early 1970s he was widely recognised as the best cricketer in the country. His captaincy was mostly about leading by example, lacking perhaps Imran's more rounded qualities. Procter was the better fielder, excelling in the slips.

Actual stats
In a 10 year span Procter played 16 tests ( including WSC and Super Tests ) against top quality international teams
Scored 700 runs @ 33.33 with bat and took 70 wickets @ 17.14

 

[peterhrt]

Actual stats
In a 10 year span Procter played 16 tests ( including WSC and Super Tests ) against top quality international teams
Scored 700 runs @ 33.33 with bat and took 70 wickets @ 17.14

Stats in Post #280 also included South Africa v the rebel England XI in March 1982. Procter was captain, scoring 1 and taking 0 for 6.

The numbers in the original post #271 included all WSC matches against Australia and West Indies. As well as the Supertests, there were many other matches of varying length: 4 day, 3 day with 40 overs in the first innings and 75 in the second, 2 day with 75 overs, 1 day or day/night with 50 or 40 overs.

 

[peterhrt]

15,000 runs in first-class cricket over a five-year period:

Hobbs (6 Sep 1909 - 1 Sep 1914): 15421 runs, average 46.87 / 41 centuries. 125 catches.
Hendren (10 June 1925 - 6 June 1930): 16759 runs, average 65.98 / 62 centuries. 207 catches.
Sandham (19 Oct 1926 - 9 Sep 1931): 15337 runs, average 55.56 / 50 centuries. 65 catches.
Herbert Sutcliffe (9 Dec 1927 - 7 Dec 1932): 16835 runs, average 70.14 / 64 centuries. 112 catches.
Hammond (1 Sep 1934 - 29 Aug 1939): 16634 runs, average 60.70 / 59 centuries. 203 wickets. 214 catches.
Compton (25 May 1946 - 22 May 1951): 16890 runs, average 65.21 / 68 centuries. 305 wickets. 171 catches.
Hutton (17 Oct 1946 - 11 Sep 1951): 17645 runs, average 64.16 / 61 centuries. 183 catches.
Barry Richards (22 May 1968 - 18 May 1973): 15062 runs, average 58.15 / 43 centuries. 174 catches.

10,000 runs in five years, with no county cricket:

Bradman (8 Nov 1929 - 11 Sep 1934): 11754 runs, average 93.28 / 42 centuries. 47 catches.
Bobby Simpson (20 Nov 1959 - 17 Nov 1964): 11803 runs, average 65.20 / 36 centuries. 217 wickets. 184 catches.
Greg Chappell (8 Jan 1972 - 6 Jan 1977): 10280 runs, average 65.06 / 33 centuries. 104 wickets. 149 catches.

 

[The Sean]

Surprised it's only 42 tons for Bradman in that period there. And it means that, interestingly, Bradman's numbers outside of that five year stretch are considerably better than inside it - 16,313 runs at 96.52 with 75 centuries.

Hobbs' average in his five year stretch is also below his career average.

 

[Coronis]

Surprised it's only 42 tons for Bradman in that period there. And it means that, interestingly, Bradman's numbers outside of that five year stretch are considerably better than inside it - 16,313 runs at 96.52 with 75 centuries.

Hobbs' average in his five year stretch is also below his career average.

Not really as surprising for Hobbs, considering the state of pitches pre and post WWI, wouldn’t have surprised me if he’d done it in another 5 year period post war too either. Yet more proof Bradman was overrated af though. Not like he was a late bloomer but thats what, just his second season of FC cricket where that period starts. iirc he also missed a tour due to appendicitis or something so may have missed some games there too.

15,000 runs in first-class cricket over a five-year period:

Hobbs (6 Sep 1909 - 1 Sep 1914): 15421 runs, average 46.87 / 41 centuries. 125 catches.
Hendren (10 June 1925 - 6 June 1930): 16759 runs, average 65.98 / 62 centuries. 207 catches.
Sandham (19 Oct 1926 - 9 Sep 1931): 15337 runs, average 55.56 / 50 centuries. 65 catches.
Herbert Sutcliffe (9 Dec 1927 - 7 Dec 1932): 16835 runs, average 70.14 / 64 centuries. 112 catches.
Hammond (1 Sep 1934 - 29 Aug 1939): 16634 runs, average 60.70 / 59 centuries. 203 wickets. 214 catches.
Compton (25 May 1946 - 22 May 1951): 16890 runs, average 65.21 / 68 centuries. 305 wickets. 171 catches.
Hutton (17 Oct 1946 - 11 Sep 1951): 17645 runs, average 64.16 / 61 centuries. 183 catches.
Barry Richards (22 May 1968 - 18 May 1973): 15062 runs, average 58.15 / 43 centuries. 174 catches.

10,000 runs in five years, with no county cricket:

Bradman (8 Nov 1929 - 11 Sep 1934): 11754 runs, average 93.28 / 42 centuries. 47 catches.
Bobby Simpson (20 Nov 1959 - 17 Nov 1964): 11803 runs, average 65.20 / 36 centuries. 217 wickets. 184 catches.
Greg Chappell (8 Jan 1972 - 6 Jan 1977): 10280 runs, average 65.06 / 33 centuries. 104 wickets. 149 catches.

Any chance of seeing the number of games/innings played too?

 

[ankitj]

15,000 runs in first-class cricket over a five-year period:

Hobbs (6 Sep 1909 - 1 Sep 1914): 15421 runs, average 46.87 / 41 centuries. 125 catches.
Hendren (10 June 1925 - 6 June 1930): 16759 runs, average 65.98 / 62 centuries. 207 catches.
Sandham (19 Oct 1926 - 9 Sep 1931): 15337 runs, average 55.56 / 50 centuries. 65 catches.
Herbert Sutcliffe (9 Dec 1927 - 7 Dec 1932): 16835 runs, average 70.14 / 64 centuries. 112 catches.
Hammond (1 Sep 1934 - 29 Aug 1939): 16634 runs, average 60.70 / 59 centuries. 203 wickets. 214 catches.
Compton (25 May 1946 - 22 May 1951): 16890 runs, average 65.21 / 68 centuries. 305 wickets. 171 catches.
Hutton (17 Oct 1946 - 11 Sep 1951): 17645 runs, average 64.16 / 61 centuries. 183 catches.
Barry Richards (22 May 1968 - 18 May 1973): 15062 runs, average 58.15 / 43 centuries. 174 catches.

10,000 runs in five years, with no county cricket:

Bradman (8 Nov 1929 - 11 Sep 1934): 11754 runs, average 93.28 / 42 centuries. 47 catches.
Bobby Simpson (20 Nov 1959 - 17 Nov 1964): 11803 runs, average 65.20 / 36 centuries. 217 wickets. 184 catches.
Greg Chappell (8 Jan 1972 - 6 Jan 1977): 10280 runs, average 65.06 / 33 centuries. 104 wickets. 149 catches.

English FC spam

 

[Migara]

Whey do we discuss FC in a test thread?

I have see few throwing hissy fits when ODIs are discussed in a thread. Why these far inferior FC games discussed in a test thread?

 

[Coronis]

Whey do we discuss FC in a test thread?

I have see few throwing hissy fits when ODIs are discussed in a thread. Why these far inferior FC games discussed in a test thread?

Cos it goes Tests > FC >> ODI >>>>>>>>T20. Murali will pop up when we get to ODI’s I’m sure

 

[peterhrt]

Not really as surprising for Hobbs, considering the state of pitches pre and post WWI, wouldn’t have surprised me if he’d done it in another 5 year period post war too either. Yet more proof Bradman was overrated af though. Not like he was a late bloomer but thats what, just his second season of FC cricket where that period starts. iirc he also missed a tour due to appendicitis or something so may have missed some games there too.



Any chance of seeing the number of games/innings played too?

Matches then innings:

Hobbs: 215/352
Hendren: 202/299
Sandham 207/303
Sutcliffe: 196/280
Hammond: 188/304
Compton: 188/300
Hutton: 191/312
BA Richards: 163/284

Bradman: 100/142
Simpson: 123/216
GS Chappell: 111/189

Hobbs and Bradman both spent time out with illness outside the timeframes shown here. Bradman missed a whole year after the 1934 tour to England, and Hobbs was out for most of the 1921 season.

Hobbs believed he was at his peak pre-WW1 when conditions were more challenging and there were more good bowlers around.

 

[Days of Grace]

215 FC matches in five years is going some. How did Hobbs manage that? There weren’t THAT many manages in a county championship season.

 

[AndrewB]

Two tours of SA and one of Aus.

 

[peterhrt]

Two tours of SA and one of Aus.

That's right. Match breakdown as follows:

9 Sep 1909 till end of 1909 English season: 4 (County Championship 0)
1909-10 in South Africa: 11
1910 English season: 38 (CC 30)
1911 English season: 36 (CC 28)
1911-12 in Australia: 11
1912 English season: 38 (CC 20)
1913 English season: 32 (CC 26)
1913-14 in South Africa: 16
1914 English season (ends 1 September): 29 (CC 26)

Total: 215

 

[Coronis]

Speaking of which, I’d rather another triwizard tournament than the current WTC

 

[Migara]

Cos it goes Tests > FC >> ODI >>>>>>>>T20. Murali will pop up when we get to ODI’s I’m sure

So much insecurity

 

[Prince EWS]

Whey do we discuss FC in a test thread?

I have see few throwing hissy fits when ODIs are discussed in a thread. Why these far inferior FC games discussed in a test thread?

At least it's the same format. Far more relevant.

 

[Migara]

At least it's the same format. Far more relevant.

Nah, not even close when it comes to quality of matches.

 

[Prince EWS]

Nah, not even close when it comes to quality of matches.

Major league baseball is high quality too but we don't drag that into Test cricket threads. Talking about the next level down makes more sense than talking about something that's fundamentally actually a different game.