Jacques Kallis vs Imran Khan

[Dendarii]

Kalis never won a world cup though

But he does have a Commonwealth Games gold medal.

 

[Migara]

Probably the two best all rounders after Sobers. Who was the better cricketer as we already know Kallis was the better batsman and Imran was the better bowler.

Imran has the claim to be the best.

 

[Migara]

lol. Imran groomed his proteges. You lost it right there.

Imran the captain is a myth. He did not make Inzi, or Akram, or Younis - They were goig to be great on their own. He managed them well, but only because the team were a pile of **** in terms of managing things before him. Compared to any captain today, with a backroom of support staff, he would have nothing other than good looks and charisma. Is Waugh the best ever captain? How about Viv? Nah - they were captains of the best team ever. Same with Imran. Convince me he is great. What tactics did he employ that won games? Did he make uncanny field changes like Clarke or Taylor or did he just coast on the back of Pakistan's great generation. Did he employ great tactics that inhibited the other teams performances, or did he just let his great team play great and win? I'll concede he probably showed great belief in the players that allowed them to perform with self confidence, but many captains have that. Is he better than McCullum? Convince me he is a great captain. I think it is a myth and he is a product of the players.

He certainly did. Bowling of part time spinners against West indies and achieving a drawn series is one such master stroke.

 

[Chrish]

Imran has the claim to be the best.

Tbh there isn’t much into it when it comes between those three.

Sobers gets the highest praise partially because of the era he played in. It was considered very dull era for cricket due to guys like Barrington/ Bill Lowery etc. batting really really slow. Sobers made cricket attractive again by his attacking style. Perhaps there is an appeal to it.

Conversely, Kallis gets underrated due to his style of batting.

 

[subshakerz]

Tbh there isn’t much into it when it comes between those three.

Sobers gets the highest praise partially because of the era he played in. It was considered very dull era for cricket due to guys like Barrington/ Bill Lowery etc. batting really really slow. Sobers made cricket attractive again by his attacking style. Perhaps there is an appeal to it.

Conversely, Kallis gets underrated due to his style of batting.

Kallis simply wasnt near where Sobers and Imran were in their primary disciplines, even on CW. And his bowling is highly overrated here too.

 

[Chrish]

Kallis simply wasnt near where Sobers and Imran were in their primary disciplines, even on CW. And his bowling is highly overrated here too.

Kallis’ bowling is better than Sobers. And when imran became proper batsman, he was barely bowling..

 

[Chrish]

People act like Kallis averaged 40 with the bat, instead of 55. I am kinda getting tired of this tbh..

 

[trundler]

Kallis’ bowling is better than Sobers. And when imran became proper batsman, he was barely bowling..

For 4 years out of 22. For an entire decade he was arguably the best bowler in the world and a top 7 batsman. This myth needs to die. Kallis is a batsman who bowled a bit in comparison to Sobers also. No way is he a better bowler. Sobers took 4 WPM and averaged sub 30 with the ball for a full decade. No contest.

 

[Prince EWS]

Kallis’ bowling is better than Sobers.

I'm a big Kallis booster but I've really come to believe this isn't the case. If anything I might be the only person in the world who thinks Kallis > Sobers with the bat but Sobers > Kallis with the ball.

Sobers was a proper frontline bowler for most of his career. When the conditions didn't suit Kallis they just didn't bowl him much - it made sense to conserve him given the high workload and sports science opinions of his time - and this really protected his bowling average.

I also think the fact that South Africa was almost Martian during Kallis's career in terms of never really joining the 21st century of total roads is underappreciated. This means his batting is underrated on CW, but his bowling average flatters him quite a bit when compared to specialists... particularly specialists of his time who weren't South African.

 

[Chrish]

Fair enough. It’s unquestionable that Sobers bowled lot more overs on average than Kallis ever did.

But don’t agree with this Kallis isn’t “near” with the bat view that seems prevalent on this forum.

 

[subshakerz]

Sobers was a proper frontline bowler for most of his career. When the conditions didn't suit Kallis they just didn't bowl him much - it made sense to conserve him given the high workload and sports science opinions of his time - and this really protected his bowling average.

Yeah and once you take minnows out, Kallis has something like 250 wickets in 150 tests @ 35 at about 20 overs a test. Compared to Kallis, Sobers was much more of a proper bowler with well over 2 wickets a test and plenty of frontline over bowling.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah and once you take minnows out, Kallis has something like 250 wickets in 150 tests @ 35 at about 20 overs a test. Compared to Kallis, Sobers was much more of a proper bowler with well over 2 wickets a test and plenty of frontline over bowling.

Look I'm pretty sure Kallis ran over your dog or something so I have almost no interest in what you say on these matters, but stopped clocks and all that - you're right on this one.

 

[subshakerz]

Fair enough. It’s unquestionable that Sobers bowled lot more overs on average than Kallis ever did.

But don’t agree with this Kallis isn’t “near” with the bat view that seems prevalent on this forum.

Sobers is a confirmed top 5 bat while Imran is near that as a pacer while Kallis will be lucky to make the top 20 bats.

 

[subshakerz]

For 4 years out of 22. For an entire decade he was arguably the best bowler in the world and a top 7 batsman. This myth needs to die. Kallis is a batsman who bowled a bit in comparison to Sobers also. No way is he a better bowler. Sobers took 4 WPM and averaged sub 30 with the ball for a full decade. No contest.

It is weird because when posters judge Imran the bowler, they include his early career and late career records when he wasn't really much of a pace bowler at all, which I understand. When they judge Imran the batsman, then they don't want to judge by his overall record and just choose to exclude that late career peak.

The reality is that in those late 80s and early 90s series, Imran wasn't that exceptionally better as a batsman than he was a few years before. I don't think his batting record flatters him too much, I see him overall as a mid-30s batsman which for the 80s is pretty good.

Also worth pointing out that during his batting peak, he was bowling around 20 odd overs an innings and opening the bowling until Waqar took over. It's not like he was dropping his bowling load to get more runs. It's just that his bowling pace and form had gone by then.

 

[BazBall21]

Imran quite easily. Best test cricketer since Garry Sobers.

 

[Chrish]

Sobers is a confirmed top 5 bat while Imran is near that as a pacer while Kallis will be lucky to make the top 20 bats.

Plenty of folks won’t rate Imran as a top 10 bowler either.

 

[Chrish]

Marshall, McGrath, Ambrose, Lillee, Warne, Murali, Wasim, Trueman, Steyn, Donald, Hadlee, Garner etc.

This isn’t necessarily my own view but I have seen plenty of posters on here rate players above over imran in such discussions.

 

[Anil]

I would go with Imran on this one.

you would! well i have to say that is very surprising, coming from you!

 

[subshakerz]

Marshall, McGrath, Ambrose, Lillee, Warne, Murali, Wasim, Trueman, Steyn, Donald, Hadlee, Garner etc.

This isn’t necessarily my own view but I have seen plenty of posters on here rate players above over imran in such discussions.

On CW's list they put Imran at no.6 so saying he is a confirmed top 10 shouldn't be controversial.

 

[smash84]

Marshall, McGrath, Ambrose, Lillee, Warne, Murali, Wasim, Trueman, Steyn, Donald, Hadlee, Garner etc.

This isn’t necessarily my own view but I have seen plenty of posters on here rate players above over imran in such discussions.

It is very easy to make an argument that Imran was a better bowler than Murali, Warne, Lillee, Wasim, and Garner