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Averaging 35 will be accepted again

GoodAreasShane

Cricketer Of The Year
I think Smith as captain played a big part in it too. Get the feeling he was never a fan of Maxwell. There was also that 12-18 month period there when Maxwell was in the ODI side and barely bowled a ball, with Smith using Head as nearly a frontline spinner the whole time. Now I'm not saying that Head is a definitively worse bowler than Maxy, but it was a very noticeable and strange shift in roles at the time.
Yeah, while I was more thinking later, it's definitely true that Smith never seemed to have much faith in Maxwell at any point

All jokes aside, I do think Maxwell should've been persisted with as a Test bat after that India tour, and I'd support recalling him for Head.
Very strongly agree with the first part of that. Think the horse has bolted on the second part though, if he would play more Shield cricket/the Vics would actually select him when he is available then I could get behind a Maxwell recall, but that seems sadly unlikely
 

Xix2565

International Regular
Anyway, the correction to normal began around 2010ish and violently so from 2018 onwards. In my book the main contributors are DRS spelling out leg stump exists, more variety in pitches worldwide and improved bowler management compared to the 2000s creating a production line of good attacks around the world with strong depth and competition for places. Umesh Yadav and Lockie Ferguson in particular are good individual examples of the wider trend - they would play every test for their sides in 2001.
Posted this elsewhere, but worth sharing here.

 

Xix2565

International Regular
They say in cricket it's always bowler's serve. So it would make sense if technology and video analysis help bowlers more than batsmen.
And yet for some reason people tend to push back and suggest past great batting lineups would do fine against the current crop of bowlers lol. Sheer idiocy really that wanks batting in a game that is primarily dictated by bowling.
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
And yet for some reason people tend to push back and suggest past great batting lineups would do fine against the current crop of bowlers lol. Sheer idiocy really that wanks batting in a game that is primarily dictated by bowling.
What?

Which past great batting line-up wouldn't do well now?
 

Xix2565

International Regular
What?

Which past great batting line-up wouldn't do well now?
Anyone? Which past batting line-up can take on the field in modern conditions with all the changes and advantages that brings to the bowlers and do well is the question.
 

Line and Length

Cricketer Of The Year
Any line-up that coped with the Windie's pace attack of the '80s or Lillee and Thomson at their best would have no problems. Don't forget, they batted without helmets and the improved bats of today. Wickets like the WACA and its incredible bounce from the same era are a rarity today.
 

Xix2565

International Regular
Any line-up that coped with the Windie's pace attack of the '80s or Lillee and Thomson at their best would have no problems. Don't forget, they batted without helmets and the improved bats of today. Wickets like the WACA and its incredible bounce from the same era are a rarity today.
No one did though? Individuals played well, but the 80s WI being the best cricket team of the era is down to their bowlers dominating other batting lineups. Where is this idea coming from that with bowling in general having gotten better due in great part to learning from past greats and with the aid of modern technology past great batting lineups would have more success then the ones we see nowadays? Is this another "older players were better because I said so" point?
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Anyone? Which past batting line-up can take on the field in modern conditions with all the changes and advantages that brings to the bowlers and do well is the question.
What changes? What advantages?

I genuinely want to know what batting line-ups you don't think would do well. I reckon any past the 80s who scored runs would do so now as well, I can't see any reason why they wouldn't. I wasn't born before that so I couldn't comment past that time.
 

Daemon

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And yet for some reason people tend to push back and suggest past great batting lineups would do fine against the current crop of bowlers lol. Sheer idiocy really that wanks batting in a game that is primarily dictated by bowling.
The great line ups of the past would be fine, relatively speaking. Don't need to score much when your opposition is Rory Burns and Ollie Pope.

Their averages may come down a bit but they'd still be *fine*
 

Burgey

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Great players adapt to changing conditions. There's no reason to think the greats of past eras wouldn't do well in the current one.
 

Xix2565

International Regular
What changes? What advantages?

I genuinely want to know what batting line-ups you don't think would do well. I reckon any past the 80s who scored runs would do so now as well, I can't see any reason why they wouldn't. I wasn't born before that so I couldn't comment past that time.
Fitter bowlers, deeper bowling attacks with no respite, conditions being more bowler friendly (especially for pace bowling), deliveries like the wobble seam being more widespread, advanced analysis through video footage to create specific tactics that are more consistently being executed on field, etc.

I don't think anyone will do well really if we define well as maintaining their career averages. The batters who scored runs post the 80s also played in a batting friendly era, which this era has not been, so it's a bit disingenuous to say they can succeed just because they scored more runs at a time when a lot of runs were being scored due to the conditions suiting batting.

Great batters could succeed, but batting lineups is a harder sell for me. If only because batters can't necessarily adapt and evolve as much as bowlers can.
 

Burgey

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I don't think anyone will do well really if we define well as maintaining their career averages. The batters who scored runs post the 80s also played in a batting friendly era,
The 90s wan't a batting friendly era at all.
 

Line and Length

Cricketer Of The Year
No one did though? Individuals played well, but the 80s WI being the best cricket team of the era is down to their bowlers dominating other batting lineups. Where is this idea coming from that with bowling in general having gotten better due in great part to learning from past greats and with the aid of modern technology past great batting lineups would have more success then the ones we see nowadays? Is this another "older players were better because I said so" point?
It certainly isn't a case of "because I said so". I have stated facts regarding equipment and conditions. To argue we are in some sort of 'golden era' of bowling because of "changes" and "advantages" is unsubstantiated.
To quote SteveNZ, "What changes? What advantages?"
 

Xix2565

International Regular
It certainly isn't a case of "because I said so". I have stated facts regarding equipment and conditions. To argue we are in some sort of 'golden era' of bowling because of "changes" and "advantages" is unsubstantiated.
To quote SteveNZ, "What changes? What advantages?"
The video I shared earlier answers your questions completely and so I'll wait until you've seen it before continuing. If you really can't be bothered then the TLDW is better pace bowling talent spread around the world, better conditions for bowling and pace bowling specifically (especially in places like India, WI and Australia), new advances like the wobble seam being more widely known and a part of most bowlers' arsenal, video analysis of batters to pinpoint weaknesses and create effective tactics, fitter bowlers in general due to a more professional scene which demands fitness from everyone and deeper bowling attacks in general as well where respite can rarely be found.
 

Xix2565

International Regular
You wouldn't pick the Aus line up from then to do well now? That's a bit bold tbh.
Things have changed a lot to be honest. It's not that bold personally to suggest they'd find things difficult when everyone batting now is experiencing that.
 

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