India Doom and Gloom Thread

[ankitj]

Did I read this right? The BCCI have just cancelled the Ranji Trophy outright this year?

What is Ganguly doing?

There's always IPL

 

[CricAddict]

I love IPL and the fun and cricket that it provides. The major bothering part about IPL is that there is a window created for it. If there are other international and domestic cricket that is happening in parallel to it, it would have been great.

 

[_00_deathscar]

I love IPL and the fun and cricket that it provides. The major bothering part about IPL is that there is a window created for it. If there are other international and domestic cricket that is happening in parallel to it, it would have been great.

Disagree on the international front because then it would create a national team vs IPL saga all over and over time, if not right now, IPL would win out. So would much rather create a window for it and avoid that conflict altogether - and that should extend to all teams IMO tough as it is, because seeing QdK (well not anymore but you get the point) and co leave midway through a series or pull out of a series because the IPL is coming up is crap. Just work out a time with all the boards that this is when the IPL is played, don't schedule games around it.
It will usually only be played during a certain time of the year anyway, which is perfect for touring the subcontinent and also UAE so schedule international tours along with that.
Bit harder in Covid times of course.

Domestic maybe you could get away with it but then the stars will be missing...

 

[cnerd123]

There isn't an actual IPL window in place anyways right? Some boards avoid scheduling major international tours/domestic competitions at the same time because they lose so many top players to the IPL that it's pointless to proceed, but i'm sure a Zimbabwe vs Ireland tour would be pretty much unaffected if it ran parallel to the IPL.

I don't like the idea of an IPL window because it wouldn't really work. Only a certain % of international cricketers take part in the IPL. Even if 50% of all active international cricketers in the world have an IPL contract, that still leaves 50% who would like to be playing games and making a living. You can't freeze global cricket and have them all just sitting at home doing nothing. Even if there was a formal window, I'm sure all major cricket boards would arrange some sort of international tour or domestic competition at the same time to keep their non-IPL cricketers busy.

Players having to choose between the IPL or their nation's international tours/domestic competitions will inevitably happen no matter what. Don't think we can avoid it, just need to accept it.

From an Indian POV - an India A tour of red-ball specialists that ran parallel to the IPL would be great, especially if it was in a timezone where it didn't clash with IPL broadcast hours so the BCCI could monetize the broadcasts of both. Just pick the players who are not going to play much in the IPL anyways but who have good FC records. Make someone like Pujara the captain and use the opportunity to groom our Test reserves. Send Dravid out with them - he's not coaching an IPL franchise right?

 

[ankitj]

There isn't an actual IPL window in place anyways right? Some boards avoid scheduling major international tours/domestic competitions at the same time because they lose so many top players to the IPL that it's pointless to proceed, but i'm sure a Zimbabwe vs Ireland tour would be pretty much unaffected if it ran parallel to the IPL.

I don't like the idea of an IPL window because it wouldn't really work. Only a certain % of international cricketers take part in the IPL. Even if 50% of all active international cricketers in the world have an IPL contract, that still leaves 50% who would like to be playing games and making a living. You can't freeze global cricket and have them all just sitting at home doing nothing. Even if there was a formal window, I'm sure all major cricket boards would arrange some sort of international tour or domestic competition at the same time to keep their non-IPL cricketers busy.

Players having to choose between the IPL or their nation's international tours/domestic competitions will inevitably happen no matter what. Don't think we can avoid it, just need to accept it.

From an Indian POV - an India A tour of red-ball specialists that ran parallel to the IPL would be great, especially if it was in a timezone where it didn't clash with IPL broadcast hours so the BCCI could monetize the broadcasts of both. Just pick the players who are not going to play much in the IPL anyways but who have good FC records. Make someone like Pujara the captain and use the opportunity to groom our Test reserves. Send Dravid out with them - he's not coaching an IPL franchise right?

ok

 

[ankitj]

Quick fixes for white ball team:

1. Bring back 7 batsman approach, build rest of the team around it. Pick a wicketkeeper who can bat (ala Dravid/Dhoni era) and 5th bowler must be either part timers or batsmen first all-rounders (Hardik Pandya kind). As corollary, play 4 specialist bowlers. There is diminishing returns to packing lot of bowlers in todays white ball games; 2-3 of them will inevitably get spanked
2. Tell the "sheet anchors" to bloody hit it off. At least Rahul and Kohli should. Never seen them playing great knocks when they start slow and build up later, leave that to Rohit
3. Get a different white ball coach. Dravid led Indian to their most embarrassing campaign in ODIs probably ever. Even ignoring that I don't see how his engagement with white ball team is inspiring to anyone

 

[Apex Predator]

India has been crap in ODIs since 2019 WC. India will be ok at home in test cricket when they dump Pujara & Rahane. Bowling will take care of itself at home.

White ball cricket needs addressing. Don't mind a full on clean up too.

 

[cnerd123]

Quick fixes for white ball team:

1. Bring back 7 batsman approach, build rest of the team around it. Pick a wicketkeeper who can bat (ala Dravid/Dhoni era) and 5th bowler must be either part timers or batsmen first all-rounders (Hardik Pandya kind). As corollary, play 4 specialist bowlers. There is diminishing returns to packing lot of bowlers in todays white ball games; 2-3 of them will inevitably get spanked

I don't think this is the way forward.

Ideally we play 5 batters up top, allrounders 6-9, and then 2 frontline bowlers. Either the keeper bats Top 5, or one of the Top 5 bowls while the keeper bats 6-9.

We have the right personnel on hand. Guys like Ishan Kishan, Pant, Samson can play the keeper role, atleast as an understudy to Pant, while Pandya, Jadeja, Axar, Thakur, D. Chahar, Sundar, V.Iyer are all useful options for 6-9. We've even got guys who are doing a decent job domestically or in the IPL that can be given a look in.

The issues are mainly on the number of anchors in the Top 5. Need more aggressive options there. We also don't have 2 gun ODI bowlers - Bumrah was one, but teams can now sit on him. Either he needs to rediscover how to take wickets in white ball cricket, or we find some other strike bowling options.

 

[CricAddict]

I don't think this is the way forward.

Ideally we play 5 batters up top, allrounders 6-9, and then 2 frontline bowlers. Either the keeper bats Top 5, or one of the Top 5 bowls while the keeper bats 6-9.

We have the right personnel on hand. Guys like Ishan Kishan, Pant, Samson can play the keeper role, atleast as an understudy to Pant, while Pandya, Jadeja, Axar, Thakur, D. Chahar, Sundar, V.Iyer are all useful options for 6-9. We've even got guys who are doing a decent job domestically or in the IPL that can be given a look in.

The issues are mainly on the number of anchors in the Top 5. Need more aggressive options there. We also don't have 2 gun ODI bowlers - Bumrah was one, but teams can now sit on him. Either he needs to rediscover how to take wickets in white ball cricket, or we find some other strike bowling options.

Good post and I agree to it. And on the options for top 5, 2 out of Ishan Kishan, SKY and Venkatesh Iyer should always play in the top 5. They are the ones who go at it from ball one. Push Rahul back to 5 where he is at his absolute best. And then pack with all-rounders from 6 to 9 like you mentioned. Bumrah should be at 11.

While it is not ODIs, CSK has employed this formula successfully for several years. Deepak Chahar always bats at 11 for CSK and he cannot come up even if he wants to, since someone like Dwayne Bravo is at 10.

And Chahar bats at 7 by right for India, which is ridiculous.

 

[ankitj]

I don't think this is the way forward.

Ideally we play 5 batters up top, allrounders 6-9, and then 2 frontline bowlers. Either the keeper bats Top 5, or one of the Top 5 bowls while the keeper bats 6-9.

We have the right personnel on hand. Guys like Ishan Kishan, Pant, Samson can play the keeper role, atleast as an understudy to Pant, while Pandya, Jadeja, Axar, Thakur, D. Chahar, Sundar, V.Iyer are all useful options for 6-9. We've even got guys who are doing a decent job domestically or in the IPL that can be given a look in.

The issues are mainly on the number of anchors in the Top 5. Need more aggressive options there. We also don't have 2 gun ODI bowlers - Bumrah was one, but teams can now sit on him. Either he needs to rediscover how to take wickets in white ball cricket, or we find some other strike bowling options.

Agree with too many anchors (which I noted in my post too).

I don't agree with playing a million bowling options in ODIs though. Can't remember when was the last time having many bowling options won us an ODI. In fact last I remember bowlers winning us ODIs was when KulCha were a phenomenon but they have clearly faded away. ODIs are not a bowlers' game; never were but they're even less so recently. No point sacrificing batting firepower for "bowling options"

I also don't remember when was the last time our lower order that we stuff with "all-rounders" won us an ODI. Last our lower order turned a game for us must have been when we played actual gun batsmen from 5 to 7 (Yuvraj-Dhoni-Raina). Jadeja, Axar, Thakur, Chahar, Sundar etc. are all good for cameos while batting alongside main batsmen but not turn games (I acknowledge Chahar has done more a couple of times). They are all candidates for playing #8 or lower.

 

[cnerd123]

I'm just recommending 6 bowlers I think that's pretty standard for all limited overs cricket. Allows you to cover for various matchups plus if someone has a bad day/gets injured. With 2 new balls and just 4 fielders in the deep in the middle overs we can't get away with 10 overs of filth.

Do agree we lack real batting options for 6/7. Someone like Yuvi or Raina would have been great now, no surprise our best performances in ODIs came with them in the side. Sundar and Iyer have potential, and SKY supposedly bowls as well. Jaddu is a good 7. But yea the rest are bowlers who hit atm.

 

[CricAddict]

Agree with too many anchors (which I noted in my post too).

I don't agree with playing a million bowling options in ODIs though. Can't remember when was the last time having many bowling options won us an ODI.

Yuvi got us a world cup.

I also don't remember when was the last time our lower order that we stuff with "all-rounders" won us an ODI. Last our lower order turned a game for us must have been when we played actual gun batsmen from 5 to 7 (Yuvraj-Dhoni-Raina). Jadeja, Axar, Thakur, Chahar, Sundar etc. are all good for cameos while batting alongside main batsmen but not turn games (I acknowledge Chahar has done more a couple of times). They are all candidates for playing #8 or lower.

I too want gun batsmen till 7 but then we need all-rounders till 10. A deep batting line-up has become quite crucial to win games now. A decent 6th bowler is also important.

 

[CricAddict]

Sundar and Jaddu at 7 and 8 can combine to form a strong batsman since both are very good batsmen than bowlers. D Chahar and Thakur to follow can give us strong batting till 10. And then Bumrah bats 11.

To provide bowling cover, we need one of V Iyer or Hardik to bat in top 6.

 

[ankitj]

Yuvi got us a world cup.

Well I am advocating for a Yuvi like all-rounder who is clearly a batsman first, not Chahar or Shardul or Sundar

 

[ankitj]

Sundar and Jaddu at 7 and 8 can combine to form a strong batsman since both are very good batsmen than bowlers. D Chahar and Thakur to follow can give us strong batting till 10. And then Bumrah bats 11.

These things sound good when you play them in your mind but seldom give you results. I would not play any of them above #8, not even Jadeja

 

[honestbharani]

Can't remember when was the last time having many bowling options won us an ODI.

2011 WC?

 

[_00_deathscar]

Agree with too many anchors (which I noted in my post too).

I don't agree with playing a million bowling options in ODIs though. Can't remember when was the last time having many bowling options won us an ODI. In fact last I remember bowlers winning us ODIs was when KulCha were a phenomenon but they have clearly faded away. ODIs are not a bowlers' game; never were but they're even less so recently. No point sacrificing batting firepower for "bowling options"

I also don't remember when was the last time our lower order that we stuff with "all-rounders" won us an ODI. Last our lower order turned a game for us must have been when we played actual gun batsmen from 5 to 7 (Yuvraj-Dhoni-Raina). Jadeja, Axar, Thakur, Chahar, Sundar etc. are all good for cameos while batting alongside main batsmen but not turn games (I acknowledge Chahar has done more a couple of times). They are all candidates for playing #8 or lower.

Hardik Pandya and Jadeja in Australia.

Edit: Oh might have been T20s. Anyway they can play the role but yea shouldn't be batting too high up.

 

[ankitj]

2011 WC?

They were all clearly batsmen first. We were still picking our best 7 batsmen. That's not what we are doing these days. We are talking about Shardul and Chahar and such in top 7.

 

[honestbharani]

They were all clearly batsmen first. We were still picking our best 7 batsmen. That's not what we are doing these days. We are talking about Shardul and Chahar and such in top 7.

I am not. They wont bat above 8 in my side.

 

[cnerd123]

6 and 7 has been a real issue since Yuvi and Raina

MSD managed to make good use of Kedar Jadhav for a while. How rubbish was Shreyas Iyer's bowling? Could we build a number 6 from him?