All time world test XI selection

[subshakerz]

I think Steyn was a better bowler than Wasim overall. But if I am a captain, I would take Wasim knowing I have the most skillful third seamer with the old ball and needed batting buffer at the end. He makes the side stronger moreso than Steyn.

 

[kyear2]

Donald and Wasim played around the same time and virtually nobody they played rates Donald ahead of Akram, though Donald admittedly has a better record.

I could concede that Donald is probably in the toss up category.

 

[subshakerz]

Smith
Steyn

Thought about Akram but Hadlee is enough batting depth afaic. Akram could hold a bat but he wasn't close to an actual all rounder. Controversially I also think Steyn might be better with the old ball. Consistent game breaking spells with reverse through his career. Ultimately if people want left arm variety that gets Wasim in, I don't think it's worth the sacrifice in marginal bowling quality.

Its not that Wasim was an allrounder, its that he was capable of sticking around at the tail to allow other bats to score. Think of the tight chases when a weak tail is a liability.

 

[kyear2]

I think Steyn was a better bowler than Wasim overall. But if I am a captain, I would take Wasim knowing I have the most skillful third seamer with the old ball and needed batting buffer at the end. He makes the side stronger moreso than Steyn.

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but a few pages ago you were ready to criticize me when I was saying the same thing with regards to batsman who are also specialist slip fielders, while not having to experience a drop off in batting.
But now you are advocating for the inferior bowler to buffer the tail. Again, not saying I disagree with the premise, but just highlighting the inconsistency.

 

[subshakerz]

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but a few pages ago you were ready to criticize me when I was saying the same thing with regards to batsman who are also specialist slip fielders, while not having to experience a drop off in batting.
But now you are advocating for the inferior bowler to buffer the tail. Again, not saying I disagree with the premise, but just highlighting the inconsistency.

I admit I have a bias when it comes to downplaying fielding skills in these ATG XI chats.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Steyn better than Wasim with the old ball? Are you kidding me? Yes, Steyn has some standout spells but also could be quite ordinary. Wasim, even at reduced pace, was consistently excellent at those spells.

When it came to reverse, Steyn was very good but Wasim was the master.

I think Steyn produced more destructive spells with the old ball than Wasim did tbh. Atleast over the span of Wasim's career I saw. Steyn bowled those out of nowhere run through the side spells more frequently than basically anyone and many of the more memorable ones were with reverse.

Also, he picked up 25 more wickets than Wasim in 20fewer tests. Its such a big difference in striking ability. Id have even picked him ahead of Ambrose too tbh , definitely Wasim as well.

 

[kyear2]

I admit I have a bias when it comes to downplaying fielding skills in these ATG XI chats.

As is your right, but I personally don't know how anyone watches the game and not have some appreciation for those taking the edges from the fast and spin bowlers alike. Or see some difference between the teams with solid or poor cordons.
I believe it does make quite a significant difference and there's nothing more disheartening in cricket than creating opportunities only to have them consistently allowed to hit the ground. Hence why unlike most here I place Sobers, Kallis, Hammond, Simpson etc slightly above the bowling all-rounders, as in addition to the dual skills, they also provide an almost equally important tertiary one.

 

[kyear2]

Bobby Simpson: Australia's saviour in many roles

Bobby Simpson served Australia as opening batsman, leg-spinner, ace slip fielder, captain, and coach.

www-cricketcountry-com.cdn.ampproject.org

Nice write up on Bobby Simpson

 

[gftw]

Smith

Steyn

 

[gftw]

Akram's league is Marshall, McGrath and Khan. Steyn was nowhere near as complete a fast bowler as any of them and I say this as a huge fan. Steyn is in the second tier of great fast bowlers like Younis, Lillee, Hadlee, Akhtar and co.

No way Akram is better than Marshall, Mcgrath, Ambrose, Hadlee, Steyn, and imran. And then I'd prob have Lillee ahead of Akram as well but that is extremely close.

 

[Days of Grace]

Smith
Wasim Akram

 

[subshakerz]

As is your right, but I personally don't know how anyone watches the game and not have some appreciation for those taking the edges from the fast and spin bowlers alike. Or see some difference between the teams with solid or poor cordons.
I believe it does make quite a significant difference and there's nothing more disheartening in cricket than creating opportunities only to have them consistently allowed to hit the ground. Hence why unlike most here I place Sobers, Kallis, Hammond, Simpson etc slightly above the bowling all-rounders, as in addition to the dual skills, they also provide an almost equally important tertiary one.

Fair enough. I do value fielding but I see it as a bonus. I wouldnt put Botham ahead of Imran because he was great in the slips though.

 

[subshakerz]

I think Steyn produced more destructive spells with the old ball than Wasim did tbh. Atleast over the span of Wasim's career I saw. Steyn bowled those out of nowhere run through the side spells more frequently than basically anyone and many of the more memorable ones were with reverse.

Also, he picked up 25 more wickets than Wasim in 20fewer tests. Its such a big difference in striking ability. Id have even picked him ahead of Ambrose too tbh , definitely Wasim as well.

Not sure if its recency bias, because I remember plenty of matchchanging old ball spells from Wasim. Oval 92, the Karachi test against Australia in 94, a few against Sri Lanka, 1990 and 2000 against WI, off the top of my head. And unlike Steyn, Wasim could reverse it both ways and had a better yorker.

Whereas with Steyn all I remember is Kanpur 2010, 2014 against Sri Lanka away and 2014 in the second test against Australia (match changing reverse swing spells). The rest were mainly new ball spells. Maybe correct me if I missed any.

And Steyn is the better bowler overall but my argument is that if he doesnt have the new ball then I prefer the better old ball bowler.

 

[Days of Grace]

Can’t you just have your third seamer coming on in the 9th over? It’s not as if they are always bowling with an old ball.

 

[kyear2]

Fair enough. I do value fielding but I see it as a bonus. I wouldnt put Botham ahead of Imran because he was great in the slips though.

But again you are making unfair and ridiculous comparisons.

Again, were talking about players of equal quality where one can bring something extra to the table, not choosing solely because of it..

I'm not proposing anything outrageous, unique or novel. Test teams actually have done and still do so. So the same way you, and convinced me to choose Hadlee over McGrath, I choose Lara or Smith over for instance Sachin.

 

[subshakerz]

But again you are making unfair and ridiculous comparisons.

Again, were talking about players of equal quality where one can bring something extra to the table, not choosing solely because of it..

I'm not proposing anything outrageous, unique or novel. Test teams actually have done and still do so. So the same way you, and convinced me to choose Hadlee over McGrath, I choose Lara or Smith over for instance Sachin.

That is ok. Perhaps you place more value on the speciality fielding position than I do to the overall team.compared to extra runs or the ability to be a side bowler. That is certainly something I can reconsider though as it is a reasonable point.

 

[ataraxia]

Kallis
Trueman

Remain to think that the better balance was with Lara at 6.

 

[TheJediBrah]

That is ok. Perhaps you place more value on the speciality fielding position than I do to the overall team.compared to extra runs or the ability to be a side bowler. That is certainly something I can reconsider though as it is a reasonable point.

It's not even extra runs though. Choosing, for example, Smith over Sachin gives you a better fielder and you get just as many runs.

 

[honestbharani]

Smith over Sachin gives you a better fielder

I have seen Smith drop way too many sitters in slips for this to be anywhere close to true. In tests, catching is far more important than ground fielding.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Headley
Davidson