All time world test XI selection

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah I hesitate to put Smith up there with the elite slippers because of how regularly he shells easy ones. Even in this ashes he's been guilty of dropping a couple that should've been taken. Maybe the drops stand out more for recent players though. I would put his second or third tier at best.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah I hesitate to put Smith up there with the elite slippers because of how regularly he shells easy ones. Even in this ashes he's been guilty of dropping a couple that should've been taken. Maybe the drops stand out more for recent players though. I would put his second or third tier at best.

Also, if we are considering secondary skills, Sachin is a matchwinning leg spinner who is stratospheres ahead of Smith as a bowler. Funny how fielding becomes the secondary skill of relevance when it suits, isn't it?

 

[ataraxia]

Also, if we are considering secondary skills, Sachin is a matchwinning leg spinner who is stratospheres ahead of Smith as a bowler. Funny how fielding becomes the secondary skill of relevance when it suits, isn't it?

tbf to Smith he almost was a matchwinning leggie himself a few days ago

 

[honestbharani]

tbf to Smith he almost was a matchwinning leggie himself a few days ago

Yeah but Sachin actually won a test with his 4th innings bowling and bowled a spell for more than 2 overs.

 

[kyear2]

That is ok. Perhaps you place more value on the speciality fielding position than I do to the overall team.compared to extra runs or the ability to be a side bowler. That is certainly something I can reconsider though as it is a reasonable point.

Never said more, or that one takes precedence over another. They are all important aspects.
Having a decent cordon doesn't come at the expense of having a 5th bowler at having a balanced tail.
The thing about having a 5th bowler is that they are never as good as specialist bowlers and there's a drop off when they come on to bowl. The thing about even Imran or Hadlee is that while they are better than many tail enders, they still aren't specialist batsmen, so again they can't be expected to perform as well as the top order guys. With slip fielders like Sobers, Smith, Hammond, Simpson, Kallis, Lara, these guys are brilliant at both their primary / tertiary disciplines.

So while it's always said about extra runs, if Bradman, Sobers and co are struggling, what will having Akram at 10 accomplish. If Marshall or McGrath is being carted around the park, will Kallis or Sobers make that great an impact besides giving the front liners a rest.

Again, not saying those roles don't play a part, but it's to lesser degrees, especially at this scale. But a cricket team requires batting, bowling and fielding and if you ask any great bowler what he wants more than anything else is great support from the other end and great support in the cordon. And it is a specialist skill, and those who are better than others. Makes no sense creating edges if they will be shelled. And to say it doesn't matter who's back there is a little bewildering to me.

 

[Flametree]

Smith
Steyn

 

[kyear2]

I have seen Smith drop way too many sitters in slips for this to be anywhere close to true. In tests, catching is far more important than ground fielding.

yes, catching is considerably more important.

Smith is a special case though. He takes blinders and creates half chances, but is susceptible to lapses. But even Bradman, Sobers or Tendulkar scores ducks at times, but we look at the overall results.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I have seen Smith drop way too many sitters in slips for this to be anywhere close to true. In tests, catching is far more important than ground fielding.

Also, if we are considering secondary skills, Sachin is a matchwinning leg spinner who is stratospheres ahead of Smith as a bowler. Funny how fielding becomes the secondary skill of relevance when it suits, isn't it?

If we're actually going to discuss this how bout we don't use an Indian cricketer as an example to keep it civil

 

[kyear2]

Yeah I hesitate to put Smith up there with the elite slippers because of how regularly he shells easy ones. Even in this ashes he's been guilty of dropping a couple that should've been taken. Maybe the drops stand out more for recent players though. I would put his second or third tier at best.

Yeah, stands out more when it's happening in the now. Of the great recent bats though, think Kallis stands out to me as the best, mixture of safe and took the exceptional ones as well.

 

[TheJediBrah]

yes, catching is considerably more important.

Smith is a special case though. He takes blinders and creates half chances, but is susceptible to lapses. But even Bradman, Sobers or Tendulkar scores ducks at times, but we look at the overall results.

This is true. I've seen him take enough screamers that a guy like Kallis wouldn't even attempt to overlook a few drops. Even at his absolute worst Smith is far more valuable in the field than some others of (arguably) similar batting ability.

 

[subshakerz]

Never said more, or that one takes precedence over another. They are all important aspects.
Having a decent cordon doesn't come at the expense of having a 5th bowler at having a balanced tail.
The thing about having a 5th bowler is that they are never as good as specialist bowlers and there's a drop off when they come on to bowl. The thing about even Imran or Hadlee is that while they are better than many tail enders, they still aren't specialist batsmen, so again they can't be expected to perform as well as the top order guys. With slip fielders like Sobers, Smith, Hammond, Simpson, Kallis, Lara, these guys are brilliant at both their primary / tertiary disciplines.

So while it's always said about extra runs, if Bradman, Sobers and co are struggling, what will having Akram at 10 accomplish. If Marshall or McGrath is being carted around the park, will Kallis or Sobers make that great an impact besides giving the front liners a rest.

Again, not saying those roles don't play a part, but it's to lesser degrees, especially at this scale. But a cricket team requires batting, bowling and fielding and if you ask any great bowler what he wants more than anything else is great support from the other end and great support in the cordon. And it is a specialist skill, and those who are better than others. Makes no sense creating edges if they will be shelled. And to say it doesn't matter who's back there is a little bewildering to me.

Dont recall Lara being that great in the slips.

Dont think the 5th bowler or lower order bat are gamechangers. Its about maximizing the quality of the side and wellroundedness of the side. In real match conditions, there can be a collapse, a main bowler can get injured or its a dead pitch. And yes, catches can get dropped too so thats a consideration.

I think the slip cordons in these two sides so far are with players who would have been picked anyways in the ATGs though regardless of their fielding, except for Simpson you mentioned.

 

[kyear2]

Dont recall Lara being that great in the slips.

Dont think the 5th bowler or lower order bat are gamechangers. Its about maximizing the quality of the side and wellroundedness of the side. In real match conditions, there can be a collapse, a main bowler can get injured or its a dead pitch. And yes, catches can get dropped too so thats a consideration.

I think the slip cordons in these two sides so far are with players who would have been picked anyways in the ATGs though regardless of their fielding, except for Simpson you mentioned.

Exactly my point as well.

 

[honestbharani]

If we're actually going to discuss this how bout we don't use an Indian cricketer as an example to keep it civil

I think you will see its always civil till you get involved, champ.

 

[ankitj]

Noway is Steyn better than Akram, I'm sorry, not even in a million years.

Pontificating about typical Subcontinent fans obsession with stats in other thread, and now displaying the quintessential casual subcontinent fan characteristic. "Akram greatest fast bowler ever" is an opinion almost exclusively found in subcontinent and is the opinion of about 95% fans here. But it fails on close scrutiny which CW posters well understand.

 

[ankitj]

Kallis and Steyn for this round

 

[Jfry]

Smith
Trueman

 

[Red]

I’m stuck at work now so I’ll finish this round in the morning ??

 

[_00_deathscar]

.
I have seen 5 of my first 11.And all the 5 were real great players.

What do you mean seen? And which ones?

 

[Nikhil99.99]

What do you mean seen? And which ones?

Sobers(late of his career) then others like steyn,McGrath,Smith,Knott.

 

[morgieb]

Kallis
Steyn