cricketsavant
U19 12th Man
Noway is Steyn better than Akram, I'm sorry, not even in a million years.
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All time world test XI selection
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
That is a bit of stretch. They are certainly in the same league. But as a package, Wasim goes ahead.
cricketsavant
U19 12th Man
Akram's league is Marshall, McGrath and Khan. Steyn was nowhere near as complete a fast bowler as any of them and I say this as a huge fan. Steyn is in the second tier of great fast bowlers like Younis, Lillee, Hadlee, Akhtar and co.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Actually, I am one of the few posters who was arguing that Steyn is a tad overrated on this forum since I found him the most hittable and least consistent among ATGs. Most posters here put him in the top 5 pacers ever but to me he is not, as a Steyn fan myself.
But no way are Lillee, Hadlee and Steyn second tier. Grouping them with someone like Akthar is an insult.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
That is a genuine tail to be sure, but if Kallis makes this team then we essentially have six specialist batsmen (all averaging 50+), plus Knott and Hadlee. With that batting depth, I reckon pick the bloke you consider the better bowler.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah but imagine this side going against the First ATG XI? You can't allow for any possible weaknesses in the side. I think 1-2 genuine tailenders is fine, but I think you need blokes who can hang around at the end as it makes a difference. The average difference of a Imran/Marshall/Warne/McGrath vs Hadlee/Steyn/Ambrose/Murali can be at least 30-40 runs an innings.
And frankly, if Steyn isn't getting the new ball, his effectiveness is drastically reduced. Akram's adaptability may make him a better 3rd seamer.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah that's fair - especially if you're not sure that Steyn should be picked as the superior bowler under the circumstances anyway!
Nikhil99.99
U19 Cricketer
Are you really saying me lillee and Akhtar are in same tier?Or steyn,hadlee and akhtar in same tier?
kyear2
International Coach
Marshall was a unanimous selection. Akram is a possibility for the 3 pacer spot in the 2nd.
If I were rating pacers, ahead of him would be
Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Ambrose, Steyn, Imran, Donald and toss up with Lillee, Holding Garner etc. But to each..
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Donald and Wasim played around the same time and virtually nobody they played rates Donald ahead of Akram, though Donald admittedly has a better record.
trundler
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Does he? Wasim played much longer and had epic spells against both strong WI and Aus teams.
OverratedSanity
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Smith
Steyn
Thought about Akram but Hadlee is enough batting depth afaic. Akram could hold a bat but he wasn't close to an actual all rounder. Controversially I also think Steyn might be better with the old ball. Consistent game breaking spells with reverse through his career. Ultimately if people want left arm variety that gets Wasim in, I don't think it's worth the sacrifice in marginal bowling quality.
Steyn
Thought about Akram but Hadlee is enough batting depth afaic. Akram could hold a bat but he wasn't close to an actual all rounder. Controversially I also think Steyn might be better with the old ball. Consistent game breaking spells with reverse through his career. Ultimately if people want left arm variety that gets Wasim in, I don't think it's worth the sacrifice in marginal bowling quality.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
Agreed - Wasim is my all-time favourite bowler, but I don't agree with the idea that he is automatically better with the old ball in all circumstances than Steyn, given what we all saw Steyn was capable of. Dale would surely get his chance with the new ball when the conditions or opposition demanded it too.
I'm also thinking ahead (while I admit I probably shouldn't be...) that Wasim's extra batting ability will probably be more useful in the third XI compared to the first two, as I reckon that team is much less likely to have Sobers/Kallis/Gilchrist-level batting at six and seven!
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The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
One of the more interesting parts of this exercise for me from here on out – assuming each team follows the same selection pattern as the first two – will be selecting the wicketkeeper while much of the team remains unknown. This hasn’t impacted me so far as Gilchrist is always my First XI choice, and Knotty always up next.
However, beyond that I tend to be quite unfair on ‘keepers in that I always wait until I have chosen my entire team and then make a call on who should slot in at the end based on team balance. There are parameters to this of course, insofar as I want whoever I choose for an All Time XI to be a world class ‘keeper - I am not generally a fan of picking champion batsmen who can just about do a job with the gloves as I feel that’s unfair on the art of wicketkeeping. At the other end of the spectrum, I am also loathe to choose guys who can’t contribute meaningfully with the bat, no matter their skills behind the stumps (Herbert Strudwick and Wasim Bari, I’m looking at you).
Where it gets tricky is when I am deciding between two blokes who are absolutely worthy of inclusion in the team, but where one is clearly the better gloveman while the other is clearly the better bat – I'm thinking Oldfield vs Ames or Healy vs Dhoni, for example. I would normally wait until I’d picked the rest of the team to see which one worked best (with a default preference to pick the better ‘keeper but only if I can justify it based on team balance) – however in this exercise I won’t have that luxury, which I think could lead to some really interesting selections and reasoning (or alternatively will just lead to everyone always choosing the better batsman as insurance!).
However, beyond that I tend to be quite unfair on ‘keepers in that I always wait until I have chosen my entire team and then make a call on who should slot in at the end based on team balance. There are parameters to this of course, insofar as I want whoever I choose for an All Time XI to be a world class ‘keeper - I am not generally a fan of picking champion batsmen who can just about do a job with the gloves as I feel that’s unfair on the art of wicketkeeping. At the other end of the spectrum, I am also loathe to choose guys who can’t contribute meaningfully with the bat, no matter their skills behind the stumps (Herbert Strudwick and Wasim Bari, I’m looking at you).
Where it gets tricky is when I am deciding between two blokes who are absolutely worthy of inclusion in the team, but where one is clearly the better gloveman while the other is clearly the better bat – I'm thinking Oldfield vs Ames or Healy vs Dhoni, for example. I would normally wait until I’d picked the rest of the team to see which one worked best (with a default preference to pick the better ‘keeper but only if I can justify it based on team balance) – however in this exercise I won’t have that luxury, which I think could lead to some really interesting selections and reasoning (or alternatively will just lead to everyone always choosing the better batsman as insurance!).
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Steyn better than Wasim with the old ball? Are you kidding me? Yes, Steyn has some standout spells but also could be quite ordinary. Wasim, even at reduced pace, was consistently excellent at those spells.
When it came to reverse, Steyn was very good but Wasim was the master.
When it came to reverse, Steyn was very good but Wasim was the master.
kyear2
International Coach
But that's applicable to everyone
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Steyn was generally less consistent than most ATG pacers on a match by match basis. I rarely saw Wasim bowl a poor spell with the old ball, even when he wasnt getting wickets.