***Official*** Bangladesh in NZ 2021-22

[Teja.]

Unusually consistent contributor then?

Yeah, that has to hold true given this fact I guess and I suspect the data would show a ****ton of 30-70but he batted at no. 3/4 for the majority of his career and you’d rather have a ratio skewed the other way for batsmen who bat in those positions.

The guy played 57 tests at No.4 and made 2 centuries which is not ideal.

The only reason why he’s not a statistical outlier is Ranatunga who somehow scored thousands of runs at a respectable average in a tough era while only making 4 centuries in 90+ tests.

 

[NZTailender]

They still randomly pop up sometimes. Saif Hassan played six Tests recently and somehow averages 40 in FC cricket despite looking like he wouldn't be fit to oil Rajin Saleh's bat.

Rajin Saleh, there's a blast from the past.

ftr on my ICC2001 Bangladeshi game he was one of my ATG bats

 

[Flem274*]

Hot take but Bond played 14 tests against top 8 sides and has only very good but not quite ATG results in those tests. He had epic results in 4 tests against Zim/BD at a very dim era for both sides.

Jamieson has played 10 tests and has already achieved more in live tests than Bond imo.

I will add that I have no doubt that Bond was clearly world class based on the eye test and his ATG LO exploits and would have excelled in test cricket if he could play more tests. However, his reputation in tests is based more on ‘common sense’ than actual achievements imo and considering NZ has had several excellent pacers with tons of wickets, I don’t think Bond warrants a place in an ATG XI.

We've had this debate before, but I think you'd be insane to select Southee or Boult in an either or situation over Bond, especially Boult right now.

When push comes to shove selectors run to the obviously better player every time and justify it later. Tom Blundell and Will Young had not done much if anything wrong to lose their first choice opener/reserve batsman spots respectively, but Devon Conway parachuted in for Lords because he's in a different batting level to those guys.

Jamieson is another guy who is probably obviously in NZs top 5-10 bowling talents ever produced, and since his selection has almost always looked a level above Southee, Boult and Wagner. He's a lot closer to my best 11 than most would have him. I'm definitely not tapping into the well of respectable professional bowlers ahead of him.

If anything NZs 2021 results probably justify their ruthless selection of the best 11 players no matter what.

 

[Bahnz]

Wagner still getting it to hoop with a 60 over ball.

 

[Daemon]

We currently have the best quartet we've ever had, and some wickets come just as much from your support as it does from your own abilities.

Bond's best support was Cairns, Vettori and a young Franklin. Other than that it was the solid but unremarkable workhorse in Martin, Tuffey, a pre-good-O'Brien, and an also ran list of forgettable seamers like Brent Arnel.

I agree but most of the time he had 1-2 test class support bowlers. Players who would walk into the current BD attack for example.

Tbh the average wasn’t my point, it was more the lack of tests. His body just wasn’t built for it.

 

[Teja.]

We've had this debate before, but I think you'd be insane to select Southee or Boult in an either or situation over Bond, especially Boult right now.

When push comes to shove selectors run to the obviously better player every time and justify it later. Tom Blundell and Will Young had not done much if anything wrong to lose their first choice opener/reserve batsman spots respectively, but Devon Conway parachuted in for Lords because he's in a different batting level to those guys.

Jamieson is another guy who is probably obviously in NZs top 5-10 bowling talents ever produced, and since his selection has almost always looked a level above Southee, Boult and Wagner. He's a lot closer to my best 11 than most would have him. I'm definitely not tapping into the well of respectable professional bowlers ahead of him.

If anything NZs 2021 results probably justify their ruthless selection of the best 11 players no matter what.

Jamieson’s already done more in tests though.

 

[Prince EWS]

Rajin Saleh, there's a blast from the past.

ftr on my ICC2001 Bangladeshi game he was one of my ATG bats

I love that he he managed to play 40+ ODIs in the 21st century as a specialist batsman despite striking at about 50 in the format. Was rarely even a problem because they weren't batting their overs anyway.

 

[Flem274*]

We're going to struggle so hard to replace this madman. Truly one of a kind, and a very good shout for NZs best 11 himself tbh.

 

[straw man]

Someone add that vein-popping celebration from Wagner to the library.

NZ gifted second wicket at 139 after a big partnership, Bangladesh at 147. Very evenly poised.

 

[Flem274*]

Jamieson’s already done more in tests though.

Shane Bond is the second best fast bowling talent NZ has ever produced though. The gap between him and say Tim Southee or Trent Boult is unreal, and that's not slighting them, Bond was just a great bowler. If he's available, he plays. In this day and age with our depth we could even rest and rotate him.

 

[Flem274*]

Let me put it this way, in the WTC final if 2008 Shane Bond was generated from the cloning vat, Boult carries the drinks and CdG gets more overs if the worst happens.

 

[NZTailender]

Yeah I think we're somehow, bizarrely, underrating Bond when sometimes we have a tendency to overrate him - he could do everything Southee and Boult can do in terms of movement, but 10kmph faster. Dude was a once in a lifetime bowler and his body didn't agree - not helped by the biometrics obsession in NZC at the time.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

NZ's top pace bowlers

Hadlee

Bond
Jamieson
Cowie
Wagner
Southee
Boult
B Taylor
Collinge
C Cairns
Nash
Doull
Martin
Chatfield
Morrison
O'Brien
Motz
Tuffey
Bartlett

 

[ataraxia]

Chatfield, Pritchard?

 

[Prince EWS]

Wagner "earning the right" to go full

It's back!

 

[NZTailender]

We're going to struggle so hard to replace this madman. Truly one of a kind, and a very good shout for NZs best 11 himself tbh.

Unless Boult regains his usual magic I could see him converting himself into that role, but maybe with less anger and more cheeky grins

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah I think we're somehow, bizarrely, underrating Bond when sometimes we have a tendency to overrate him - he could do everything Southee and Boult can do in terms of movement, but 10kmph faster. Dude was a once in a lifetime bowler and his body didn't agree - not helped by the biometrics obsession in NZC at the time.

He falls into the frontlines between results based and skill based analysis, so even though most people fall in the middle of that spectrum somewhere Bond is going to be polarising.

I'm a bit of a skill based gatekeeper personally. I think to be in some discussions you need to have the skill to even be discussed. It's why I'm so ......... on picking Vettori.

 

[Flem274*]

Unless Boult regains his usual magic I could see him converting himself into that role, but maybe with less anger and more cheeky grins

I'm not sure anyone can. Southee seems to be the second fittest, so maybe he does the long haul trucking and Ferguson comes in to kill people through short spells?

Unfortunate for Henry's further chances but we don't need three RFM outswing bowlers.

 

[Teja.]

Let me put it this way, in the WTC final if 2008 Shane Bond was generated from the cloning vat, Boult carries the drinks and CdG gets more overs if the worst happens.

FWIW, I’d definitely take Wagner over Bond. Not sure about the others.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Chatfield, Pritchard?

Good point. Have edited and put Chatfield in. If Pritchard is included, Caddick should be too.