The CricketWeb comprehensive list of ALL TIME GREATS (ATGs) discussion

[bagapath]

Barry ****ing Richards makes his way in after playing one solitary series!!!

Such an insult to all those professionals who slog their ass across continents, playing spin and pace, bowling to scores of batsmen with different skills, year after year, fighting their way against different generations of opponents, improving their games as their techniques are exposed, modifying their techniques as their bodies age...

One successful series and this guy is bunched with the true professionals!!!!

UNFAIR!!!!!!

 

[Victor Ian]

What do you mean?

They don't need his batting and his keeping is ****. Out of place for many teams.

 

[Red]

bit harsh on root i reckon if williamson and kohli make it. he's already proved himself superior to gower and pietersen imo who both made the list.


that man sobers could play too.....

Both just big oversights. I’ve added them

 

[Red]

They don't need his batting and his keeping is ****. Out of place for many teams.

Point taken but I think he could realistically bat somewhere in the top six for any nation’s all time test XI without it being ridiculous. Yeh? Nah?

 

[The Sean]

Shaun Pollock? Ben Stokes? Andrew Flintoff?
Uncle Pollock among the middle order bats is also missing. and can't find Sangakara and Dravid too.

Sanga and Dravid are in the number 3s.

And while those all rounders you mention are champions, I was talking about a bloke called Sobers.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Also if Sehwag and Hayden make it, so should Smith and possibly even Cook.

Agree with these

 

[Red]

Barry ****ing Richards makes his way in after playing one solitary series!!!

Such an insult to all those professionals who slog their ass across continents, playing spin and pace, bowling to scores of batsmen with different skills, year after year, fighting their way against different generations of opponents, improving their games as their techniques are exposed, modifying their techniques as their bodies age...

One successful series and this guy is bunched with the true professionals!!!!

UNFAIR!!!!!!

Wasn’t his fault he couldn’t play more than 4 tests. He’s so highly rated by so many former players. But I’m happy to hear opinions. I mean, he was picked in XIs like cricinfo’s all time SA XI

 

[Red]

Also if Sehwag and Hayden make it, so should Smith and possibly even Cook.

Added

 

[Red]

Sanga and Dravid are in the number 3s.

And while those all rounders you mention are champions, I was talking about a bloke called Sobers.

Yeh Sobers has been added. Just an oversight

 

[The Sean]

England seems a bit under-represented in the bowling categories - Barnes certainly should be there somewhere (you can decide for yourself if he's a quick, a spinner or a category of his own in between!), and I'd definitely have Laker and Verity at least in the spinners.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Trying to think of some kiwis to add because Fuller Pilch will come in here with a vengeance

Martin Crowe?

 

[The Sean]

Wasn’t his fault he couldn’t play more than 4 tests. He’s so highly rated by so many former players. But I’m happy to hear opinions. I mean, he was picked in XIs like cricinfo’s all time SA XI

I'd have Procter in the all-rounders then too, by that criteria. I reckon either they are both eligible for consideration, or neither are.

 

[bagapath]

Wasn’t his fault he couldn’t play more than 4 tests. He’s so highly rated by so many former players. But I’m happy to hear opinions. I mean, he was picked in XIs like cricinfo’s all time SA XI

of course it was not his fault. but he just didn't play enough test cricket to be included in this list. case closed.

there is no way to predict how he would have done in his second year/ third year of cricket when opponents knew his technique already, and how he would have counterpunched; he sure would have continued to do well - only we don't know how. how would he have performed against the four men pace attack from windies or against Bedi and Chandra and Prasanna on the dustbowls of India. Or against the reverse swinging Imran and Sarfraz.

There is no reason to consider him when you don't even include Graeme Smith who slogged his ass off for decades against all international opponents and achieved so much over 100+ tests whereas Barry played only 4 tests

 

[Victor Ian]

Point taken but I think he could realistically bat somewhere in the top six for any nation’s all time test XI without it being ridiculous. Yeh? Nah?

Not in the wicketkeeper bracket, but as a batsman, today I say no, but I've expressed before how I swing about a lot regarding his batting.

 

[Red]

This is totally just a conversation. I’ve missed some obvious ones and I’ll amend as they get mentions

 

[Red]

of course it was not his fault. but he just didn't play enough test cricket to be included in this list. case closed.

there is no way to predict how he would have done in his second year/ third year of cricket when opponents knew his technique already, and how he would have counterpunched; he sure would have continued to do well - only we don't know how. how would he have performed against the four men pace attack from windies or against Bedi and Chandra and Prasanna on the dustbowls of India. Or against the reverse swinging Imran and Sarfraz.

There is no reason to consider him when you don't even include Graeme Smith who slogged his ass off for decades against all international opponents and achieved so much over 100+ tests whereas Barry played only 4 tests

That’s all fine. I’m not looking to argue. Very happy to add Smith, and also remove Richards if that’s the general consensus

 

[Xix2565]

That’s all fine. I’m not looking to argue. Very happy to add Smith, and also remove Richards if that’s the general consensus

I think generally you should have a set limit on games played, since reputation alone cannot carry you in the conversation of greatness in a sport where we obsess over stats (and their context) and hail Bradman's 99.94 batting average over a decent number of games as the greatest achievement in the sport.

 

[ImpatientLime]

I’ve added Pollock. Sanga and Dravid are listed with the #3s

Not sure Stokes and Flintoff are quite there but open to debate

flintoff certainly not.

stokes should be there if shakib makes the cut. but i don't think either of them make their way into any ATG xi (outside of bangladesh, zimbabwe) so would remove shakib.

 

[bagapath]

I would suggest at least 2000 runs / 100 wickets/ 100 dismissals as wicket keeper should be kept as minimum criteria for qualification. I know it is arbitrary but in general such achievements would take 30 tests (about 60-70 runs or 3 -3.5 wickets per test) for good players and 40+ tests for wicket keepers. this would usually give you 5-6 seasons of international cricket against 4-5 opponents and 3-4 overseas tours to judge them.

 

[honestbharani]

playing spin and pace

Yeah always knew Bradman was a hack.