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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

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Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
If this is from Turner's era onwards he would be behind John Wright, Mark Richardson, and Tom Latham as opening options. If it is all time he'd be behind Stewie Dempster and Bert Sutcliffe too.
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
Red said:
Back to the list and criteria, is the general consensus that Kapil doesn’t make it?

I always rated him as a quick but I can understand people thinking he doesn’t belong here. He had a great record against Aus and WI, but there are some holes.
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Kapil and Hall don’t make it. Neither does Procter, for different reasons.
 
h_hurricane

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
Red said:
Back to the list and criteria, is the general consensus that Kapil doesn’t make it?

I always rated him as a quick but I can understand people thinking he doesn’t belong here. He had a great record against Aus and WI, but there are some holes.
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He may not make it as a bowler alone, but he would certainly strengthen an actual ATG team. So does Botham. If that was your perspective, you were spot on.

Thinking about the below XI during their playing days.

Greenidge
Haynes
Richards
Kalicharran
Lloyd
Gomes
Kapil/Botham
Dujon
Marshall
Holding
Garner
 
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I don't think Southee or Boult should be ATG level. If I'm picking a NZ team it has to be Hadlee and Bond + all-rounders. Not picking a 3rd specialist bowler that's not good enough for that level. Maybe that Cowie guy. Cairns and Vettori can do a job with bat and ball.
 
ImpatientLime

ImpatientLime

International Regular
is bond a lock? only 18 tests, some tasty minnow bashing. high ceiling obviously. they don't exactly have the historic pace depth of the west indies, australia or south africa but still feel uneasy selecting him over blokes with long proven careers.
 
The Sean

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
This is just one guy's opinion of course, but I don't see the justification for McCullum over Watling. Watling was a better 'keeper and - when they both had the gloves - a more productive batsman as well.

McCullum obviously produced some extraordinary performances as a specialist bat but if you're considering him on that basis he's not up against Watling, he's up against Taylor.
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
ImpatientLime said:
is bond a lock? only 18 tests, some tasty minnow bashing. high ceiling obviously. they don't exactly have the historic pace depth of the west indies, australia or south africa but still feel uneasy selecting him over blokes with long proven careers.
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I mean, people (including me) select guys like Headley, Cowie, Dempster, Pollock, Procter and Richards all the time. Its really up to you. Personally Bond and Cowie are so far above any other NZ quick in terms of skill it easily offsets the career shortness for me.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
TheJediBrah said:
Regardless, Jimmy Anderson as a change bowler would be marginally less effective at worst. The **** comes back for second spells and does a great job quite often, and in the Test that just finished he bowled perfectly all innings and actually took basically all of his wickets with the old ball.

It's galaxy brain stuff to pick a worse bowler as a "change specialist" just because. And no hate on Neil Wagner but come on, in an ATG scenario what are we even doing talking about this guy.

I obviously haven't seen as much of him as kiwi brahs but in the games he's played against Aus he's almost exclusively been the guy that comes on and gets given wickets because we're already 3/400 and looking to push towards a declaration and he's bowling slow half-trackers with a packed leg-side field. If you're in an ATG team match-up and you need a change bowler to come on when the opposition is 1/25 you're nuts if you're looking at Neil Wagner over Jimmy Anderson
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NZ all time side will be playing half their games in NZ and half around the world. Unless we're in England and maybe Asia (depending on attack structure), Wagner is comfortably the better change bowler. Anderson is mediocre at best in NZ, which really matters if he's going to be playing for them in made up tournaments.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
I realise no one watched Fleming era tests but he really isn't a good opener, like at all. You're not getting that 40 average opening plus his other attributes, you're getting a sub 30 average. Turner, Sutcliffe, Dempster, Richardson, McCullum, Wright, Latham all much better options, and I'm a Latham skeptic against good attacks in SENA still.
ImpatientLime said:
is bond a lock? only 18 tests, some tasty minnow bashing. high ceiling obviously. they don't exactly have the historic pace depth of the west indies, australia or south africa but still feel uneasy selecting him over blokes with long proven careers.
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Yeah no one in real life is leaving out someone of Bond's talent level for anyone bar Hadlee.
 
The Sean

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
The final make-up of that all-time NZ attack could go a bunch of different ways - assuming Hadlee (because GOAT) and Vettori (because spinner) are in the side, then depending on team balance and whether you play another all-rounder (Cairns/Reid) I reckon you're selecting two or three from Cowie, Bond, Southee, Boult and Wagner and you could argue they all deserve a spot.

(With apologies to great past servants of NZ cricket like Motz, Collinge, Chatfield, Morrison, Martin etc, who are all at least a level or two below IMO)
 
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