1st Test at Brisbane, 8th-12th of December 2021

[Tom Flint]

Why was the ground half empty all day and those that were there left ages before close of play?
What's so goodd to do in brisbane that the aussies didn't stay to the end to clap off a great knock?

 

[Woodster]

Thought it was a mix of bad fortune and problems of our own making. Dropped catches, wickets off no-balls and missed run outs aren’t down to luck. You could argue beating the bat so often is a result of not quite bowling full enough, but I do think the quicks were impressive on the whole and deserved better.

Balls dropping just short of fielders, edges in the gaps, etc, is bad luck and England did have their fair share. This Test is about character now and ensuring we don’t fold in a heap without taking any positives onto Adelaide with the bat. The last three wickets cannot be allowed to put on another 100 as it will be even more deflating.

To salvage some pride we need to wrap the Aussies first innings up, sharpish, and show some application and balls with the bat.

 

[wpdavid]

My first thought was that wpdavid is overreacting, so I picked out a random 90s XI and chose the '99 Boxing Day test, which they won. It's closer than I thought.

Atherton
Stewart
Butcher
Hussain
Ramprakash
Hick
Hegg
Headley
Gough
Fraser
Mullally

You're right that they have no batsmen within a million miles off Root and Stokes, but none of them are as bad as Malan or Hameed either. Hard to know what to make of the bowling, kind of comparing unknown quantities to known mediocrities. I'd take today's attack, but only because I really rate Robinson, and he's only played a few tests so I could be completely wrong about him.

Over-reacting, moi? Surely not. Anyway, your approach of picking a random side from the decade is probably sensible, but there are better 90s sides available; i.e. only one of Hick and Ramprakash (Thorpe instead of one of them please), not Warren Hegg as keeper (this may have been one of his grand total of two tests), a younger version of Fraser and no Mullally at all. But sticking to your chosen XI vs this week's line-up:
Root and Stokes instead of Hick and Ramps. Maybe with Hussain batting at 5, after Root.
Buttler instead of Hegg, but this is a harder call if Russell or even Stewart was keeping for the 90s XI, which is usually what happened.
Robinson instead of Mullally.
Leach probably gets in as I hate not playing a spinner, even if he did get mauled today. Perhaps Leach vs Tufnell deserves its own thread.
Maybe Wood instead of the very old version of Fraser who was still playing in 1998/99, but Fraser was mostly far superior. And Headley and Gough were much, much better than all of today's side's quicks apart from Robinson. As was Fraser until he was past it in 1998/99. Even Caddick, for all his frustrating inconsistencies, was better that most of this week's attack.

I'm trying to avoid cherry-picking an untypical side from the better 1990s performers. Obviously there were also far worse 90s sides too. But at least we won one match in each of the 1994/95 and 1998/99 series against the best side in the world. Whereas the current side look worse than the sides that lost 9 out of the previous 10 in Australia and the smart money is on another 4 or 5 nil against a relatively ordinary Australian side.

Going back to the original question, I would only unquestionably pick Root, Stokes and Robinson against a typical 90s side. Maybe Leach. And that's all folks. As GIMH mentioned, that changes if Silverwood decides it might be worth playing at least one of Branderson, even if I do suspect that this is an Ashes tour too many for them. Hopefully I'm wrong about that though.

 

[wpdavid]

Gough/Wood and Fraser/Robinson very similar in their MO. Not comparing their respective careers but more the style of bowlers they are.
Not sure about Fraser's record in Australia, but tall 'over the top' bowlers have had plenty of success over the years. Robinson looks extremely good and is very skillful

Fraser was pretty good in 1990/91 and 1994/95. Less so in 1998/99 when it turned out he was too old. I word it like that because he had done well in the previous winter's tour of WI and the home series against SA that immediately preceded the Ashes. But by the winter of 1998/99 he had lost it. Robinson may go on to produce a better career record than Fraser, but it's far too early to make that comparison. tbf, reading your comment properly, you weren't saying that anyway, but I'll leave this out there.

 

[silentstriker]

Shane Warne's just a massive ****ing idiot isn't he

**** of the highest order

**** his commentary. Warnie's comms make me want to die.

I've said this before but it actually legitimately shocks me how someone can be so brilliant at the game - and not just brilliant athletically - but brilliant at thinking about the game and outthinking the opponents tactically - as a player but be just so complete trash as a commentator. It's so mind boggling. If all he did was talk about spin bowling and the technical art of it and how to think about getting batsmen out, it would be so brilliant and I could listen for hours.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Why was the ground half empty all day and those that were there left ages before close of play?
What's so goodd to do in brisbane that the aussies didn't stay to the end to clap off a great knock?

It was parents vs kids day for AusKick at my son's school.

 

[Prince EWS]

I've said this before but it actually legitimately shocks me how someone can be so brilliant at the game - and not just brilliant athletically - but brilliant at thinking about the game and outthinking the opponents tactically - as a player but be just so complete trash as a commentator. It's so mind boggling. If all he did was talk about spin bowling and the technical art of it and how to think about getting batsmen out, it would be so brilliant and I could listen for hours.

Weirder that Vaughan was such a good captain but such an awful commentator, but I guess that's probably more just because he's a dick than his tactical instincts.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Both Mediocre Side are fighting with each other,both were beaten by india at home this year.??
Ashes in Australia don't deserve more than 2 match due to England pathetic record in last decade .

Completely irrelevant.


We won the Twenty20 WC.

 

[nightprowler10]

If he were English the answer would be easy.

Thankfully being Australian, the answer is pretty complex.

Hmmmmm

Usman Khawaja: I prayed on Fridays, didn’t go out drinking; being culturally different held against me

Facing racism since an early age, Usman is used to hearing people say that he would never make it to the Australian team because of his skin colour.

indianexpress.com

 

[Gnske]

Hmmmmm

Usman Khawaja: I prayed on Fridays, didn’t go out drinking; being culturally different held against me

Facing racism since an early age, Usman is used to hearing people say that he would never make it to the Australian team because of his skin colour.

indianexpress.com

Are you saying that the Australian Coach and Selector are RACIST then? Find me some tweets proving it then come back.

 

[GIMH]

I've said this before but it actually legitimately shocks me how someone can be so brilliant at the game - and not just brilliant athletically - but brilliant at thinking about the game and outthinking the opponents tactically - as a player but be just so complete trash as a commentator. It's so mind boggling. If all he did was talk about spin bowling and the technical art of it and how to think about getting batsmen out, it would be so brilliant and I could listen for hours.

When he first commentated, or I first heard him anyway, it was the 2009 Ashes and he was just fantastic. Generally insightful throughout but during long passages would share technical details and tales. I’d have sat there enthralled if there were no pictures. And I think that was the consensus on here.

I don’t know when it changed but for me he reached the point of no return on the final day of the 2013 Ashes.

still gun when he does a master class or whatever during lunch here in the summer

 

[Bijed]

When he first commentated, or I first heard him anyway, it was the 2009 Ashes and he was just fantastic. Generally insightful throughout but during long passages would share technical details and tales. I’d have sat there enthralled if there were no pictures. And I think that was the consensus on here.

I don’t know when it changed but for me he reached the point of no return on the final day of the 2013 Ashes.

still gun when he does a master class or whatever during lunch here in the summer

What did he say in particular? Or was it just a case of him being bad for long enough that you realised that was just how he was going to be?

 

[Bahnz]

It's weird, was pretty similar with Martin Crowe back in the day. Great thinker of the game who just got sucked into hyperbole, catch-phrases and his 'on-mic persona'. Was a shame because he really was very insightful. Came back after his first cancer diagnosis to a do a day of radio commentary at Eden Park during the 2014 test v India and he was just fantastic, one of my favourite days of listening to cricket ever.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Finally been able to catch up and watch some highlights of this.

Sorry to say England fans but I don't think we're going to win this Test.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

It's weird, was pretty similar with Martin Crowe back in the day. Great thinker of the game who just got sucked into hyperbole, catch-phrases and his 'on-mic persona'. Was a shame because he really was very insightful. Came back after his first cancer diagnosis to a do a day of radio commentary at Eden Park during the 2014 test v India and he was just fantastic, one of my favourite days of listening to cricket ever.

I suspect as you commentate more and more and become a 'senior' broadcaster it's hard not to get pressured into saying **** just to fill the air, rather than waiting until you actually have something interesting and well thought through

 

[Binkley]

I suspect with Crowe, and possibly Warne as well (although his Tweeting makes it seem less likely) that his approach to commentating in the early days was driven by the instructions of the broadcaster. Sports broadcasters seem to have a very warped perception that punters want to listen to blokey, matey, opinionated, morons and nothing else. Especially not anything that might make the poor audience think they know less than the commentator CF: Scotty Stevenson.

 

[GIMH]

What did he say in particular? Or was it just a case of him being bad for long enough that you realised that was just how he was going to be?

Asked Atherton about a million times if he thought Cook would be prepared to lose to win

 

[Uppercut]

When he first commentated, or I first heard him anyway, it was the 2009 Ashes and he was just fantastic. Generally insightful throughout but during long passages would share technical details and tales. I’d have sat there enthralled if there were no pictures. And I think that was the consensus on here.

I don’t know when it changed but for me he reached the point of no return on the final day of the 2013 Ashes.

still gun when he does a master class or whatever during lunch here in the summer

You’re right, I’d completely forgotten that he was unanimously agreed to be really good at first. I wonder what’s changed.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Warne's insights on spin bowling are still generally good listening imo

It's just everything else that is the problem

 

[TimAngas]

Reminds me of this infamous low-point of Channel 9 coverage.

(Sorry for linking to the Herald Sun)