***Official New Zealand in India Nov-Dec 2021 Thread***

[NZTailender]

I guess we'd have to look at the criteria for MotM. Does it say anywhere that it's linked to contribution to team success? Because if you take it on strict terms of man of the match, a guy being the third person in 130+ years of Test cricket to take all 10 wickets + four more beats the pants off a guy scoring 150 and 60, even acknowledging that Agarwal played incredibly well and was the most influential in terms of the team that won.

So yeah, I think he was dudded, Ajaz. He won't give a **** but his was the greatest performance in that game. Comfortably.

The sane solution was joint MOTM

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

We really do spend our time talking about inconsequential ****, don't we

I mean this is a cricket forum.

 

[centurymaker]

Haha, this is utter madness. Questioning the validity of a guy taking 10-119. In the first innings, bowling first. Against India at home. Bowling 47.5 overs. If that's not 10/10, the metrics need adjusting.

6/10 is a good performance.
7.5/10 is very good performance
9/10 Great performance
10/10 is you have bowled perfectly.

Although it was a Great performance and worked incredibly hard, I don't think it was a perfect performance because he conceded 119 and allowed India to get 325 on a sharply spinning wicket against half strength indian batting line up.

The likes of Rohit and Jadeja and Pant who can very aggressive/dismissive against spinners weren't even there. I am sure Pant would have gone after him being a left handed batsman and ball coming into him. So its not like Ajaz faced a mighty indian line up and at its peak etc. Good lineup overall and at home but on a very helpful wicket and since Nz had no one else to take advantage of conditions, he ended up bagging every wicket eventually. He didn't "run through the lineup" in either innings. He alone went for 225 runs. Two runs less than what Nz managed in two innings 227/20.

It was special but not perfect in real value but perfect statistically. So not 10/10, hence why he didn't get the MOTM.

If this had been a flatter pitch, then it would definitely be 11/10, or if it he had rolled over the line up.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

6/10 is a good performance.
7.5/10 is very good performance
9/10 Great performance
10/10 is you have bowled perfectly.

thank u sir

 

[OverratedSanity]

First test, yes, but we really needed him to stand up again in the second - even a couple of 20s or 30s would have provided us with a bit of a foundation. Unfortunately it ended up being one of the worst matches of his whole career.

Its a tough gig tbh. Left handers facing ashwin on these tracks never ends well.

 

[centurymaker]

Was it an all-time great performance? statistically yes but otherwise no. If everyone genuinely thought this was one of the best performances they had ever seen in India, he would have won the MOTM regardless of match situation or the fact that it was biggest defeat ever in NZ's history and biggest win ever in india's history.

People do have difference in opinion regarding it so he didn't get it and imo it was not a perfect 10/10 performance or 11/10 but really close because he had no support.

 

[Prince EWS]

First test, yes, but we really needed him to stand up again in the second - even a couple of 20s or 30s would have provided us with a bit of a foundation. Unfortunately it ended up being one of the worst matches of his whole career.

NZ were probably just gonna get pumped in the second Test no matter what tbh. Him scoring his runs in the first Test instead of the second was the difference between 1-0 and 2-0.

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, even with Conway and Kane fit, Wagner playing and the selectors growing some balls and dropping Ross, and Kane winning the toss NZ were always getting thrashed in this test. Margin of defeat might’ve been 250ish rather than 400ish, but NZ were never pushing India close.

The first test is potentially a different story though.

 

[Nintendo]

Still a lot of work to do with their batting tbh. Plus the spin stocks are pretty shallow atm. Young Sangha looks a decent prospect but there isn't a lot that looks all that good really. Then you've got to factor in the way they try to do funky selections and always **** up th eteam balance when they tour these places. Weird.

I'd say they're a few years off genuinely competing for a series away in India tbh.

Ehh smudge was great over there last time and he still has the hunger for runs, marnus is an absolute nutter and has some ability vs spin, heyll find a way to jam his way to a series average of 45. Those two+green can give us the runs to be competitive, don't know if the bowlers, particularly the spinners are up to it

 

[Immenso]

As for Rachin, I hear there are couple or three county offers on the card already. Also there is high chance he will change province to either CD or ND. That'll be very weird for us firebirds supporters. That will do him good as for developing bowling is concerned. He is not going to bowl much for firebirds that's for sure.

Interesting. He actually has quite a reasonable FC bowling record at the Basin Reserve with the ball.
But he only bowls 7 overs per match at home, and 16 overs per match away

For Wellington	Matches	Overs	Runs	Wkts	BB	Ave	5wI
TOTAL	17	184.4	628	13	3-47	48.30	0
Basin Reserve (Home)	10	70.3	230	6	2-32	38.33	0
Away	7	114.1	398	7	3-47	56.85	0

https://archive.nzc.nz/Players/1596/1596049/f_Bowling_by_Ground.html

 

[SteveNZ]

6/10 is a good performance.
7.5/10 is very good performance
9/10 Great performance
10/10 is you have bowled perfectly.

Although it was a Great performance and worked incredibly hard, I don't think it was a perfect performance because he conceded 119 and allowed India to get 325 on a sharply spinning wicket against half strength indian batting line up.

The likes of Rohit and Jadeja and Pant who can very aggressive/dismissive against spinners weren't even there. I am sure Pant would have gone after him being a left handed batsman and ball coming into him. So its not like Ajaz faced a mighty indian line up and at its peak etc. Good lineup overall and at home but on a very helpful wicket and since Nz had no one else to take advantage of conditions, he ended up bagging every wicket eventually. He didn't "run through the lineup" in either innings. He alone went for 225 runs. Two runs less than what Nz managed in two innings 227/20.

It was special but not perfect in real value but perfect statistically. So not 10/10, hence why he didn't get the MOTM.

If this had been a flatter pitch, then it would definitely be 11/10, or if it he had rolled over the line up.

He didn't allow India to get 325. He bowled India out for 119. Literally. If he'd bowled all the overs, India would have been bowled out for 119. Think about that. If he'd bowled 47.5 overs and you allowed him the 3-4 minutes rest between overs, he would have bowled India out for 119 on a first/second day pitch. He didn't run through them, and nor would you expect a LH finger spinner that early in a Test to do so. Herath and Maharaj took Test 9-fors for over 100 too in first innings (interestingly Maharaj wasn't MotM either in a loss - Karunaratne with 80 and 50 was)

Until such time as a cricket cyborg takes 10-10 and lands every ball on a length nicking the top of off, I'm more than happy to give 10/10 to a guy who takes every wicket available to them. No one bowls a perfect spell. With the conditions he was facing - and it wasn't VERY helpful, it was somewhat helpful - I reckon that's as good as you're going to get. Saying that NZ had no one else ignores the fact that it can also create a situation where India can sit on him, knowing no one else is going to do any damage.

 

[nzfan]

We know how good is Ashwin vs Left handers.... was having a look at how our left handers in the team handled Ashwin (only batters). Look at the consistent lines and length of Ashwin... that is staggering. One strange fact though, he didn't get Rachin out. Wonder what could be the factor. Perhaps Rachin is tall (Is he like 6' 1" or 6' 2"?) and can get to the pitch of the ball with a bigger stride?

Ashwin claimed Latham and Nicholls 50% of the times (2 times each).

Ashwin vs Tom Latham



Ashwin vs Nicholls



Ashwin vs Rachin

 

[nzfan]

Ajaz Patel groupings for those interested from the series.

Ajaz Patel to right handers. Some down leg were deliberately bowed...



Ajaz to left handers

 

[nzfan]

Will Sommerville to left handers



Will Sommerville vs right handers... Barely few balls bowled outside the off. This is where it went all wrong I thought. When bowled on the stumps to right handers and when the ball is turning it just makes it easy for the batsmen to use the feet, sweep with the angle.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

I hate analytics

 

[nzfan]

I hate analytics

So do I ... lots of time it won't necessarily tell the story and doesn't consider the match situations but kind of gives an idea about the control of line and length in long format. A stats such as this would be a waste in white ball cricket. That said this is what they rely on in international cricket for match ups.

 

[Salamuddin]

LOL Sanity you sound like a funny guy.
as it happens NZ are the ONLY world champions ever, and there is nothing fake about it.
even in this series, their schedule was overwhelmingly exhausting, and they were missing key players,
and even then they still managed to show great character and fight out a draw.
In recent times the following has happened.

1, India were smashed in the test series and ODI's by NZ less than 2 years ago.
2. India were knocked out of the semi final by NZ in the world cup.
3. India were crushed by 8 wickets on a neutral venue by NZ in the test championship final.
4. India were smashed and knocked out of the 20/20 world cup by NZ last month.
5. India were denied a win by NZ last week, from a team with about as much energy left as my 99 year old grandmother.

Now come on Sanity, you couldn't possibly deny that at the moment the blackcaps completely have the wood over India
both mentally and on the cricket field?

Dude if you are going to argue something at least be balanced about it. India were missing six front line players in Kanpur and Mumbai so the whole nz didn't have Conway and boult so can be excused doesn't cut it.

Likewise the whole tiredness excuse is lame - India have played more cricket of late than nz.
Man up and admit NZ were not good enough in this series.

 

[Salamuddin]

India also number one test team now in the icc rankings and fair enough because they have proven themselves a more capable team across conditions and facing different opposition than nz.

 

[Victor Ian]

Only in the rankings. They still have to win when it matters to be the number 1 team (without conditions).

 

[Xix2565]

Only in the rankings. They still have to win when it matters to be the number 1 team (without conditions).

You could say the same about NZ tbf, considering Southampton 2021.