Is Ashwin an ATG spinner / player?

[CricAddict]

Yes, but that's why he's not a guaranteed ATG and only an arguable one - like a very lower rung one...Courtney Walsh level stuff at best type. Don't think anyone is arguing he's a guaranteed ATG.

It is a discussion to be had though.

The other point is that he's SO good at home that it's hard to ignore that completely - it's ridiculous dominance.

Different topic.but Walsh is very very underrated. I will even have him in my first atg XI in certain conditions.

 

[Nikhil99.94]

Goat ?
Bradman

2nd greatest sobers
W.G is legend,great isn’t sufficient to describe the man that made modern cricket.
All time great(ATGs)

Hobbs
Knott
Hammond
Hutton
S.f Barnes
O’Reilly
Warne
Gilchrist
McGrath
D.k lillee(edited)
Smith
Keith Miller
Sachin
Murali
Imran
Wasim
Richards
Lara
Marshall
Headley
Ambrose
Hadlee
Kallis
Steyn

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

@Nikhil99.94
D.K???

Dimuth Karunaratne?

 

[h_hurricane]

@Nikhil99.94
D.K???

Dimuth Karunaratne?

Dinesh Karthik and Nidahas trophy says hi.

 

[Migara]

Goat ?
Bradman

2nd greatest sobers
W.G is legend,great isn’t sufficient to describe the man that made modern cricket.
All time great(ATGs)
Hobbs
Knott
Hammond
Hutton
S.f Barnes
O’Reilly
Warne
Gilchrist
McGrath
D.k lillee(edited)
Smith
Keith Miller
Sachin
Murali
Imran
Wasim
Richards
Lara
Marshall
Headley
Ambrose
Hadlee
Kallis
Steyn

Definiete lack of Barrington and Sangakkara

 

[honestbharani]

ATGs are fixed in the squad.

Which squad was Ashwin ever dropped from?

 

[_00_deathscar]

Different topic.but Walsh is very very underrated. I will even have him in my first atg XI in certain conditions.

Oh I massively agree. I've been a huge Walsh fan on this forum compared to many.

But in the same vein, I would also have Ashwin in one of my ATG XIs in certain conditions - those conditions being the test is played in India.

 

[honestbharani]

Ashwin has something like 9 or 10 MoS performances in 33 series played overall. That is just ridiculous. Even if you consider him a HTB, he is at a different level of HTB compared to anyone, even Anderson or Sehwag or Warner. Which means even being genuinely decent to good (and nothing more) away from home is more than enough for him to be an ATG. He is arguably the greatest match winner in my time of watching cricket and also the greatest bowler against left handers probably ever. Those are superlatives you cant just ignore.

 

[ankitj]

He is arguably the greatest match winner in my time of watching cricket and also the greatest bowler against left handers probably ever.

Agree with both. And outdoing Kumble as a match winner at home takes some doing. I enjoy watching Ashwin lot more than I did Kumble fwiw

 

[Slifer]

Half a wicket per game is a pretty significant difference statistically isn't it? Ashwin's well over 5wpm too, but then again some of it is down to him being (stupidly) dropped overseas.

Even if Ashwin played overseas more regularly, how likely is it that he'd average sub 25. No spinner outside of Warne has achieved that recently. That's because Warne is a genius (terrible person though). Anyway we can all agree to disagree....

 

[karan_fromthestands]

Kohli would pick Murali, Warne and Kumble on a green mamba 2 days in advance and defend his choices. Can't underestimate him.

I doubt, none of them could bat, and Kohli went for that extra batting cushion against England with Jadeja

Regardless of anything else, Ash had clearly said that no one in the think-tank was betting on him to pick the key wicket of Smith in Australia(when they were planning stuff) but he was working on his bowling and figured out his own ways to be effective. He was also useful with the bat. Ashwin proved that he was our best spin bowler and can perform in unhelpful conditions(nothing more unhelpful for a offspinner than Aussie pitches). You simply can't drop a player like that after he performs despite not getting enough confidence from his captain. And talking about Kumble, Ganguly had recognised how good he was and backed him even when was going through lean patches. Kohli drops people left right and centre, those rules don't apply to the batsmen these days coz he might have to drop himself too after a couple of bad games.

 

[_00_deathscar]

I doubt, none of them could bat, and Kohli went for that extra batting cushion against England with Jadeja

Regardless of anything else, Ash had clearly said that no one in the think-tank was betting on him to pick the key wicket of Smith in Australia(when they were planning stuff) but he was working on his bowling and figured out his own ways to be effective. He was also useful with the bat. Ashwin proved that he was our best spin bowler and can perform in unhelpful conditions(nothing more unhelpful for a offspinner than Aussie pitches). You simply can't drop a player like that after he performs despite not getting enough confidence from his captain. And talking about Kumble, Ganguly had recognised how good he was and backed him even when was going through lean patches. Kohli drops people left right and centre, those rules don't apply to the batsmen these days coz he might have to drop himself too after a couple of bad games.

I'm not sure he had much of a choice in that matter - what exactly was he going to do? Threaten to drop the spinner and play Abey Kuruvilla in his stead?

Kohli has a richness of bowling talent available to him - and to be fair to the guy, he's using it. I don't always agree with his decisions but generally can't fault the results as much.

 

[honestbharani]

Ganguly had recognised how good he was and backed him even when was going through lean patches.

Dude, the fact that Ganguly kept dropping Kumble for Bhajji was a BIG thing in Indian cricket in the noughties.

 

[_00_deathscar]

I don't think people are just aware of what Jadeja/Ashwin are competing with with regards to each other. To give you an idea:

Jadeja completed the 2000 runs and 200 wicket combo in just 53 Tests which ranks below England's Ian Botham (42 Tests), India’s Kapil (50 Tests), Pakistan’s Imran Khan (50 Tests) and India’s Ravichandran Ashwin (51 Tests).

We have two of them playing in the same team at the same time and are of the same generation with a couple of years between them.

Away from home, unless we shift the order and play Jadeja #5 (which you could argue we should have done a while back - or something to that extent), that only leaves place for 1 spinner. So we basically just go with whoever is most in form and/or can best plug in the issues the side currently has (e.g. batting).

Bear in mind that it's not like we NEED the spinner to take 20 wickets away from home anymore when our pace attack can do it. We just need someone to bowl a lot of overs, keep it tight, and pick up the odd wicket here and there.

So the person we pick isn't necessarily the best spinner, but the player best suited to what ELSE we currently need - batting, fielding etc (because apart from the fact that most of our pace bowlers can't bat, they also are very poor fielders. Ashwin is as well, of course).

 

[honestbharani]

Threaten to drop the spinner and play Abey Kuruvilla in his stead?

Or our current bowling coach Paras Mhambarey.

 

[h_hurricane]

Dude, the fact that Ganguly kept dropping Kumble for Bhajji was a BIG thing in Indian cricket in the noughties.

Yep, in Brisbane 2003,Ganguly picked Harbhajan ahead of Kumble. Bhajji sucked in that test, got injured luckily and flew back home. It paved the way for Kumble's best performance overseas.

 

[karan_fromthestands]

I'm not sure he had much of a choice in that matter - what exactly was he going to do? Threaten to drop the spinner and play Abey Kuruvilla in his stead?

Kohli has a richness of bowling talent available to him - and to be fair to the guy, he's using it. I don't always agree with his decisions but generally can't fault the results as much.

Results have been good with or without him, he left the team after a humiliating defeat in Australia and yet the team came back and won the series in the remaining games. Kohli's captaincy has only improved overtime and I am saying that despite not being a fan of his leadership. But making selection errors every now and then was quite common with him and Shastri. We don't even have an established team before a major ICC tournament, the team is doing well because of the depth we have right now more than anything else.

 

[silentstriker]

Yes.

 

[karan_fromthestands]

Dude, the fact that Ganguly kept dropping Kumble for Bhajji was a BIG thing in Indian cricket in the noughties.

It was never a "thing", he might have kept him out of the team here and there to get the composition right, but it's not even comparable to how Kohli treats Ash. Ganguly never kept Kumble out of the team due to his "stubbornness".

 

[karan_fromthestands]

I'm not sure he had much of a choice in that matter - what exactly was he going to do? Threaten to drop the spinner and play Abey Kuruvilla in his stead?

Cool comment, but we've always had good spinners to pick from and Kumble could have been easily written off on multiple occasions if he wouldn't have got the support from Ganguly.