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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
Howe_zat
Audio File
What’s the thinking behind ‘when you pick an ATG team you will have enough batting, so you don’t need your keeper to be a good batsman’ compared to ‘when you pick an ATG team, your attack will always be able to take wickets, so you don’t need the best possible wicketkeeper’?
Even assuming that keeping and batting are shared evenly among the options, it’s the same difference either way. You have just as much reason to pick the best balanced side you can regardless of whether it’s for an ATG exercise or park cricket.
Even assuming that keeping and batting are shared evenly among the options, it’s the same difference either way. You have just as much reason to pick the best balanced side you can regardless of whether it’s for an ATG exercise or park cricket.
Daemon
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True, didn’t think of it that way.
If a keeper scores 20 more runs on average with the bat and shells one per innings, your 20 averaging ATG bowler will just pick up one more at the same rate anyways.
TheJediBrah
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Can't agree with JBMAC on this one
Gilchrist really a worse batsman than Don Tallon, Ray Lindwall, Ernie Toschack and both Johnstons? Gilchrist was also a very good keeper, especially by modern standards. Sure he wasn't quite the level of Ian Healy or Allan Knott but comparing him to Wayne Phillips is beyond harsh
Gilchrist really a worse batsman than Don Tallon, Ray Lindwall, Ernie Toschack and both Johnstons? Gilchrist was also a very good keeper, especially by modern standards. Sure he wasn't quite the level of Ian Healy or Allan Knott but comparing him to Wayne Phillips is beyond harsh
Flem274*
123/5
I don't really judge Tallon much for that drop tbh
1) It's a single ball of his career
2) I've been saying for ages cricket is one of those rare sports that pretends everything has declined over time. Fans of any winter code know if you transport someone from as recently as 1987 to today, they're going to die. Sports improve their general play over time as they professionalize and collective knowledge can be passed down. Some areas might dramatically decline if the rules change (sticky wickets for cricket, and imo give tackle winter codes 20 years and standing chest tackles will be a thing of the past as concussion laws get harsher) but overall sports refine themselves.
It doesn't really matter though. We don't consider Glenn McGrath or Don Tallon aces in their fields because of what cricket might be like in 2050. It appears to be consensus that Tallon was one of the very first guys you'd pick to keep wicket during his time, and he compared very well with those who came before him, so yeah absolutely if you want to talk specialist stumpers he is in the conversation.
1) It's a single ball of his career
2) I've been saying for ages cricket is one of those rare sports that pretends everything has declined over time. Fans of any winter code know if you transport someone from as recently as 1987 to today, they're going to die. Sports improve their general play over time as they professionalize and collective knowledge can be passed down. Some areas might dramatically decline if the rules change (sticky wickets for cricket, and imo give tackle winter codes 20 years and standing chest tackles will be a thing of the past as concussion laws get harsher) but overall sports refine themselves.
It doesn't really matter though. We don't consider Glenn McGrath or Don Tallon aces in their fields because of what cricket might be like in 2050. It appears to be consensus that Tallon was one of the very first guys you'd pick to keep wicket during his time, and he compared very well with those who came before him, so yeah absolutely if you want to talk specialist stumpers he is in the conversation.
JBMAC
State Captain
Spot On
Coronis
International Coach
Players who played tests, but don’t meet the minimum statistical average requirements. (20 innings batted/2000 balls bowled)
Barry Richards 508@72.57
Stewie Dempster 723@65.72
Sid Barnes 1072@63.05
Kumar Duleepsinhji 995@58.52
Jack Russell 910@56.87
Ashraf Ali+ 17 catches, 5 stumpings
Mike Procter 41@15.02
Zulfiqar Ahmed 20@18.30
Goofy Lawrence 28@18.28
Bob Appleyard 31@17.87
Jack Iverson 21@15.23
Keeper I struggled with the most. Excluded all current players, and didn’t really look at most pre war bowlers tbh.
Reasons for their short careers:
Richards - Apartheid
Dempster - Played for NZ in the 30’s.
Barnes - Being an idiot.
Duleep - Recurring illness
Russell - WW1 kept him from debuting til 33
Ashraf - Wasim Bari and Saleem Yousuf were better keepers.
Procter - Apartheid
Zufilqar - Dunno
Goofy - One series, smashed it, averaged under 20 in his FC career. Next series was 2 years later (32 then, maybe they thought he was too old?)
Appleyard - Chronic shoulder injury
Iverson - Ankle injury
Barry Richards 508@72.57
Stewie Dempster 723@65.72
Sid Barnes 1072@63.05
Kumar Duleepsinhji 995@58.52
Jack Russell 910@56.87
Ashraf Ali+ 17 catches, 5 stumpings
Mike Procter 41@15.02
Zulfiqar Ahmed 20@18.30
Goofy Lawrence 28@18.28
Bob Appleyard 31@17.87
Jack Iverson 21@15.23
Keeper I struggled with the most. Excluded all current players, and didn’t really look at most pre war bowlers tbh.
Reasons for their short careers:
Richards - Apartheid
Dempster - Played for NZ in the 30’s.
Barnes - Being an idiot.
Duleep - Recurring illness
Russell - WW1 kept him from debuting til 33
Ashraf - Wasim Bari and Saleem Yousuf were better keepers.
Procter - Apartheid
Zufilqar - Dunno
Goofy - One series, smashed it, averaged under 20 in his FC career. Next series was 2 years later (32 then, maybe they thought he was too old?)
Appleyard - Chronic shoulder injury
Iverson - Ankle injury
Last edited:
ataraxia
International Coach
Billy Wade IMO
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'd have Ironmonger over Iverson
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
J.Hobbs
B.Richards
V.Richards
S.Tendulkar
G.Pollock
A.Border
A.Knott
I.Khan
W.Akram
B.OReilly
G.McGrath
kyear2
International Coach
As far as these teams go, think this one is pretty complete. There aren't that many open slots left for this team with, at least for me, 5 players being automatic selections and with Warne, possibly 6. The team bats deep, with no rabbits with the bat, good mixture of technique and aggression in the batting, variety in the bowling and a great cordon.
Gavaskar is by some distance the best of the modern openers and I'm not sure how Hobbs would have adapted to the modern game.
The most difficult of the batting selections was Lara over Tendulkar, Kallis, Richards etc. And quite frankly it came down to that in my opinion he was the best batsman I've ever seen. On his day, don't think he had an equal, far less a better.
Steve Smith was again a close call over the names previously mentioned, but he was a slightly better and more enterprising bat than Kallis, with Lara and Sobers didn't need Viv's additional aggression and won out over Sachin with his slip catching. And with this attack, a great cordon is an absolute must.
The bowling was the hardest decision of all. It came down to if I wanted a combination of Imran and McGrath or Hadlee and Steyn and relied on the community for assistance. And while McGrath is my no. 2 of all time, Hadlee is a close no 3, and the poll results here was closer than expected. And with the bowling being so close, and with similar styles and M.O., his much stronger batting gives him an edge. The real clincher was the poll results for Steyn over Imran and the fact that I wanted at least one bowler who would have experienced modern bowling conditions. But it was close, and would still likely prefer McGrath and Imran in less favorable bowling conditions and really was almost down to a flip of a coin.
Coronis
International Coach
He doesn’t meet the criteria though.
CricAddict
Cricketer Of The Year
Jadeja for Laxman in sc.. This team is fine overseas.
ataraxia
International Coach
Has been done before. Reckon Holder does make it. Without actually doing much of my own research:
1) Gordon Greenidge /
2) Conrad Hunte /
3) Frank Worrell* / o
4) Everton Weekes /
5) Garfield Sobers / o
6) Clyde Walcott + /
7) Seymour Nurse /
8) Jason Holder o /
9) Malcolm Marshall o /
10) Wes Hall o
11) Joel Garner o
TheJediBrah
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Indias mid 00s batting, with today's bowling would be very strong. Only a tier or 2 behind Windies 80s and Aus 00s
JBMAC
State Captain
Engineer should be in as keeper and open with Gavaskar and all the others drop down one place in order