mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Heard of the 1948 invincibles?
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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
ataraxia
International Coach
yeah, well, they wouldn't be invincible without Miller.Heard of the 1948 invincibles?
TheJediBrah
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They would have played like 20 tour matches back then too
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Disagree, based on the fact I doubt his batting was needed much in the FC games with Morris, Barnes, Bradman, Harvey etc batting so well. His bowling probably helped win a few games, sure, but without that they would have just drawn more - still undefeated and invincible!
TheJediBrah
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I've got a massive hardcover book about the 1948 invincibles at home that someone got me when I was a kid, I remember it had all the scorecards and descriptions of all the games in it. Never read it though **** that
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Apparently the closest they came to losing all tour(in the third match no less, before the 1st test!), where Don Tallon of all people saved them on a sticky wicket
Tallon played a key role in Australia's victory in the next match against Yorkshire, on a damp pitch that suited slower bowling.[7][10] He came in at 7/86 and made ten in the first innings to push Australia to 101 in reply to Yorkshire's 71, in which Tallon did not concede a bye.[11] However, Tallon was not so tidy in the second innings, conceding 11 byes as the hosts were bowled out for 89 in their second innings. He did not make a dismissal in the match. Australia then collapsed to 6/31 in pursuit of 60 for victory when Tallon strode in. To make matters worse, Sam Loxton was injured and could not bat, so Australia only had three wickets in hand. Australia faced its first loss to an English county since 1912.[11][12] He survived an immediate leg before wicket appeal and then hit a shot that fell just short of a fielder. He then compiled 17 unbeaten runs as Australia scraped home by four wickets.
Tallon played a key role in Australia's victory in the next match against Yorkshire, on a damp pitch that suited slower bowling.[7][10] He came in at 7/86 and made ten in the first innings to push Australia to 101 in reply to Yorkshire's 71, in which Tallon did not concede a bye.[11] However, Tallon was not so tidy in the second innings, conceding 11 byes as the hosts were bowled out for 89 in their second innings. He did not make a dismissal in the match. Australia then collapsed to 6/31 in pursuit of 60 for victory when Tallon strode in. To make matters worse, Sam Loxton was injured and could not bat, so Australia only had three wickets in hand. Australia faced its first loss to an English county since 1912.[11][12] He survived an immediate leg before wicket appeal and then hit a shot that fell just short of a fielder. He then compiled 17 unbeaten runs as Australia scraped home by four wickets.
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
i'll pay you for it
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Australia tour of England, Apr-Sep 1948 Cricket Team Records & Stats | ESPNcricinfo.com
Read about Records, / , Australia tour of England, Apr-Sep 1948, / , First-class matches, / , Batting and bowling averages Cricket Team Records only on ESPNcricinfo.com. Check the Stats & Records of Records, / , Australia tour of England, Apr-Sep 1948, / , First-class matches, / , Batting...
Despite his averages being nothing to scoff at, it's fair to say his output was really not that crucial the whole tour. Even Sam Loxton got more FC tons than him. This batting unit were just not gonna lose any games, with or without Miller's help. His bowling probably helped some potential draws become victories, though McCool took more wickets than him let alone Lindwall and Johnston who nearly doubled him
Miller = Myth?
Maybe we can call him the only ever ATG bits and pieces player. Icing on the cake rather than cake, but he was some bloody tasty icing.
My evidence:
On Australia's 1948 invincible tour, he had the
8th best FC batting average
3rd best FC bowling average
7th best FC batting aggregate
6th best FC bowling aggregate
Last edited:
ataraxia
International Coach
yeah but if he actually tried he'd average 80 and 14.Australia tour of England, Apr-Sep 1948 Cricket Team Records & Stats | ESPNcricinfo.com
Read about Records, / , Australia tour of England, Apr-Sep 1948, / , First-class matches, / , Batting and bowling averages Cricket Team Records only on ESPNcricinfo.com. Check the Stats & Records of Records, / , Australia tour of England, Apr-Sep 1948, / , First-class matches, / , Batting...stats.espncricinfo.com
Despite his averages being nothing to scoff at, it's fair to say his output was really not that crucial the whole tour. Even Sam Loxton got more FC tons than him. This batting unit were just not gonna lose any games, with or without Miller's help. His bowling probably helped some potential draws become victories, though McCool took more wickets than him let alone Lindwall and Johnston who nearly doubled him
Miller = Myth?
Maybe we can call him the only ever ATG bits and pieces player. Icing on the cake rather than cake, but he was some bloody tasty icing.
My evidence:
On Australia's 1948 invincible tour, he had the
8th best FC batting average
3rd best FC bowling average
7th best FC batting aggregate
6th best FC bowling aggregate
TheJediBrah
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Pretty sure he played more cricket than just 1 tour . . .Australia tour of England, Apr-Sep 1948 Cricket Team Records & Stats | ESPNcricinfo.com
Read about Records, / , Australia tour of England, Apr-Sep 1948, / , First-class matches, / , Batting and bowling averages Cricket Team Records only on ESPNcricinfo.com. Check the Stats & Records of Records, / , Australia tour of England, Apr-Sep 1948, / , First-class matches, / , Batting...
Despite his averages being nothing to scoff at, it's fair to say his output was really not that crucial the whole tour. Even Sam Loxton got more FC tons than him. This batting unit were just not gonna lose any games, with or without Miller's help. His bowling probably helped some potential draws become victories, though McCool took more wickets than him let alone Lindwall and Johnston who nearly doubled him
Miller = Myth?
Maybe we can call him the only ever ATG bits and pieces player. Icing on the cake rather than cake, but he was some bloody tasty icing.
My evidence:
On Australia's 1948 invincible tour, he had the
8th best FC batting average
3rd best FC bowling average
7th best FC batting aggregate
6th best FC bowling aggregate
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
True, but maybe that was the case for a lot of his career. it got me thinking
He had a very low test WPM for a bowler with such a good average(and this talked about a lot) and of course was considered a bit underwhelming with the bat compared to his potential. but of course a 36/23 average split seems amazing
But in terms of output i'm thinking he didn't impact as many series as we take for granted(or at least wasnt a matchwinner/man of the match that often)
other than his first and last series where he only played one match the rest of the series he nearly always played 5 except two where he only played 4 games. so we'l count all but 2 tests of his career.
so from them, he averaged 263 runs per series, with his best performance being 439 runs against the Windies in '55. They had fairly weak bowling, Worrell and Frank King took the new ball and this was before Wes Hall. They had Valentine and Ramadhin though. This was the only time he hit more than 400 runs in one.
with wickets he averaged 15 per series, and his best was 21 wickets which he got in the '56 ashes. England's batting was pretty thin here, Hutton was retired and Compton only played one match. May and Cowdrey were their best on offer.
it's like he was ATG at consistently chipping in with useful wickets at a good average and useful runs at an okay average, but he was a very different AR to Botham, Imran, Hadlee, Sobers, Kallis etc
He was kinda like an upgraded, more consistent Flintoff
He had a very low test WPM for a bowler with such a good average(and this talked about a lot) and of course was considered a bit underwhelming with the bat compared to his potential. but of course a 36/23 average split seems amazing
But in terms of output i'm thinking he didn't impact as many series as we take for granted(or at least wasnt a matchwinner/man of the match that often)
other than his first and last series where he only played one match the rest of the series he nearly always played 5 except two where he only played 4 games. so we'l count all but 2 tests of his career.
so from them, he averaged 263 runs per series, with his best performance being 439 runs against the Windies in '55. They had fairly weak bowling, Worrell and Frank King took the new ball and this was before Wes Hall. They had Valentine and Ramadhin though. This was the only time he hit more than 400 runs in one.
with wickets he averaged 15 per series, and his best was 21 wickets which he got in the '56 ashes. England's batting was pretty thin here, Hutton was retired and Compton only played one match. May and Cowdrey were their best on offer.
it's like he was ATG at consistently chipping in with useful wickets at a good average and useful runs at an okay average, but he was a very different AR to Botham, Imran, Hadlee, Sobers, Kallis etc
He was kinda like an upgraded, more consistent Flintoff
Last edited:
TheJediBrah
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As discussed he mostly disliked bowling and wouldn't do it unless he felt it was needed
ataraxia
International Coach
Really?
TheJediBrah
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From reports I've read that was the case. Apparently no one even knew he could bowl until he was already playing "professional"-ish cricket and making waves as a batsman. Turned out his bowling was probably better than his batting, but he wouldn't bowl if he didn't need to. Often Aus had plenty of other options bowling bulk overs so he didn't need to.
TheJediBrah
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There's the story that when Aus made 721 in a day against a county side, Miller came in and deliberately got bowled straight away because he thought the whole situation was embarassing
Quote from teammate Sid Barnes: “If Keith had had the same outlook as Bradman or Ponsford, he would have made colossal scores. He could, if he desired, have become the statisticians’ greatest customer.”
Not suggesting for a second that he could have even come close to matching Bradman statistically, but it's representative of the general feeling about Miller as a cricketer
Quote from teammate Sid Barnes: “If Keith had had the same outlook as Bradman or Ponsford, he would have made colossal scores. He could, if he desired, have become the statisticians’ greatest customer.”
Not suggesting for a second that he could have even come close to matching Bradman statistically, but it's representative of the general feeling about Miller as a cricketer
Victor Ian
International Coach
How much of miller's low wpm was a product of his times? He has about 2 per innings, much like lindwall. He strikes at about once every 60 balls, again like lindwall. What are the rates of their contemporary from other countries? Is it true bowlers of their time didn't run through tails with fire because they were gentlemen?
