Lara's 1999 series vs Aus or Smith's 2019 series vs Eng?

[mr_mister]

I guess being slightly more used to the pitch conditions/climate helps too

But yeah almost nullified by being booed by your home crowd at times lol. Even after the 213 he got booed while coming out to bat in the 3rd test for the 153*. For sending Pedro Collins out before himself as night watchman. Fickle fans lol

Emotional rollercoaster that series, as well as Smith's in 2019.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Easily the worst bowler to have taken 300 test wickets.

Ishant?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

NZ's current attack at home or in England worth a shout. Relentless

 

[OverratedSanity]

Ishant?

Nah it's actually harbhajan imo.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Nah it's actually harbhajan imo.

Harby was probably a better bowler than Vettori (especially after Vettori's back injury). Vettori was the better cricketer though.

 

[Nintendo]

NZ's current attack at home or in England worth a shout. Relentless

This, nz's 4 man pace attack at home complement eachother SO well, chef's kiss kinda stuff.

 

[Burgey]

Ishant?

Nah Lee spent long periods of his career borderline grade level. Like, you know when Starc goes bad? Like that but shorter, right handed and more Tory. Terrible bowler. Basically just a bowling machine dialed up high for 95% of his career.

 

[Burgey]

I know this is a bit off topic but weren't we discussing individual performances of batsman in a series.
For me a great performance against Ashwin and Jadeja in India is as good as a performance against McWarne actually its even more difficult coz I don't recall many batsman doing well against them.

So for example Smiths performance in india in 2016 should again be rated higher than Lara's 1999.

Yeah reasonable point this. Thought the discussion had moved away from that but certainly a good point

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Nah Lee spent long periods of his career borderline grade level. Like, you know when Starc goes bad? Like that but shorter, right handed and more Tory. Terrible bowler. Basically just a bowling machine dialed up high for 95% of his career.

Look we had pace attacks with the likes of Daryl Tuffey, Chris Martin, Iain O'Brien (surprisingly good one year), Kyle Mills, Michael Mason, Chris Drumm, and Jacob Oram. No one over 135. Would've loved someone like Lee for a bit of variety.

 

[honestbharani]

Series such as Lara 2001 and Smith 2019 are more about the crazy output than the quality of the attack.

Whereas Lara 99 and Smith 2017 are more about the quality of the attack and the context of the innings.

To me though, Lara 99 was unique. You just don't have batsman play 2 ATG knocks in consecutive tests and then another worldclass knock as the cherry on top. WI would never have drawn that series without Lara.

I don't see how home conditions make a difference. For Lara, that may have meant more pressure actually in the beginning of the series when he was being booed.

And he played with a chipped bone in his right elbow, which caused him to pretty much all cricket from the ODI series onwards till the WC, and even in the WC he was not fully fit.

I mean, I understand its not as bad as Warne's fingernails being broken but still............

 

[Moss]

To what extent do consider that it was "Lara at one end, <insert choice of one-horse-town> 2nd XI at the other" lined up against that Australian side?

Similar in Smith's case I suppose, but he did have Marnus as foil.

 

[Nintendo]

To what extent do consider that it was "Lara at one end, <insert choice of one-horse-town> 2nd XI at the other" lined up against that Australian side?

Similar in Smith's case I suppose, but he did have Marnus as foil.

The australia side was genuinly horrible, had wade once and marnus for the last 2 tests when he came back, but was nothing aside from that.

 

[subshakerz]

I would also add, not enough people talk about how crazy good that 213 was from Lara as it is overshadowed by the 153*, kinda like how Dravid's 180 gets overshadowed by Laxman's 281. To me, it is among the best 20 or so knocks every played, in even greater pressure than the Barbados innings. The fact that he can play an innings of that quality and then better it in the next text is something unheard of, and makes his 99 series the best ever barring Bradman 1930.

 

[honestbharani]

The australia side was genuinly horrible, had wade once and marnus for the last 2 tests when he came back, but was nothing aside from that.

Yeah but Windies had Dave Joseph at 3 and a tail where no one could hold a bat.

 

[mr_mister]

Adrian Griffith wasn't much chop either

 

[OverratedSanity]

Sherwin Campbell made a great forgotten ton in the 153 game tbf. No way WI win that game without that knock.

 

[Burgey]

Sherwin Campbell made a great forgotten ton in the 153 game tbf. No way WI win that game without that knock.

Yeah good shout this. That was a quality knock. Forgotten player. Always thought he should have done way better overall than he did

 

[honestbharani]

Sherwin Campbell made a great forgotten ton in the 153 game tbf. No way WI win that game without that knock.

Him and Ridley Jacobs had a great partnership, Walsh had a great spell but the Lara knock made them match-winning contributions.

 

[Slifer]

I'm ignoring India here but the bold aren't - mostly that they lack the variety (latter day AshJaddu with Bumrah, Ishant, Shami, Yadav has a shout for variety though) - which isn't to say those in bold weren't fantastic, they clearly were. But for most teams (not named India or Lara), McWarne (and the supporting cast) clearly presented a different challenge.

With all due respect, variety does not equal effectiveness. Man for man

Ambrose vs McGrath are equal (more or less)
Warne is greater than Walsh but is he really more effective?? Walsh only really sucks in Australia and that too was mostly due to the very last series he played there in 2000. That aside, he has a pretty solid record vs all comers just like Warne. Bishop is about equal to Gillespie but greater than any of Australia's other options. Now if we're talking pre injury Bishop, no one outside of McGrath compares. I believe one of Winston/Kenny Benjamin would round out the attack. Not bad 4th bowlers.

 

[CodeOfWisden]

Nah it's actually harbhajan imo.

That guy has 5 performances amongst top 100 wisden performances by a bowler, he was a man of big moments and actually dominated many series against big guns, definitely a better bowler than Lee.
Can't compare Spinners average to fast bowlers.