*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[Bahnz]

Wagner's action fell apart a bit over the 2014 winter and he got pumped in county cricket and then the plunket shield. Dougeh was killing it at the same time, so the selectors got itchy trigger fingers and fired Wagner before the end of the home summer v Sri Lanka. Probably wasn't the worst move at the time, but unfortunately they were much slower on the draw when Wagner got back into form and he missed the entirety of the England and Australia tours.

For me the WI tour of 2014 was the real turning point. Latham came into the side, and Kane reached his final form and became a run-scoring machine, finally providing some starch at the top of the order. The regular good starts that NZ started getting from that point gave the quicks enough to work with to consistently win games. Finally that series win v India I think gave the team confidence that they could and should win series.

 

[hendrix]

yeah there were hints in that 2012 tour to Sri Lanka when Southee and Boult were wreaking havoc vs a very, very good SL batting lineup. But we didn't have the batting yet.

 

[Nintendo]

Finn Allen passes 1000 career runs in T20 last night, averaging 40 at a Sr of 175, good to see him realising his u19 potential.

Allen, Conway, Ferguson and Phillips have all been absolutely phenominal in the T20 blast, Phillips is comfortably the top run scorers while batting 4/5 all season, good looks for the upcoming t20 WC.

 

[thierry henry]

Yeah Wagner was definitely dropped for most of the Aus home and away test series in 15/16 for Bracewell, which really made no sense at the time given he’d been performing well and bowled us to the home win over India the previous season. He came back for the third test at home vs Aus and took seven wickets with what I remember being the start of Wagnerball.

Wagnerball really started in a ridiculous test against Sri Lanka in December 2015 where just about every wicket came from a short ball and Sri Lanka copied us and had success too.

Then when it worked again in that otherwise grim test against Australia a few months later, it was locked in forever.

 

[hendrix]

Wagnerball was present ever since his debut tbh. And it sorta worked to a degree as well but not to any level of consistency and it seemed so jammy it wasn't really believable. But he refined it to a ridiculous degree

 

[Bahnz]

Wagnerball was present ever since his debut tbh. And it sorta worked to a degree as well but not to any level of consistency and it seemed so jammy it wasn't really believable. But he refined it to a ridiculous degree

He definitely employed more after his return to the side in 2015. But you're right, he's always relied on the short stuff when things weren't going his way even before he debuted for NZ. I remember reports of a game between Otago and CD were Matt Sinclair got under his skin and he got suckered into unleashing a short-ball barrage. Sinclair proceeded to hit him for a cavalcade of 6's over McLean Park's tiny square boundaries.

 

[Immenso]

Before Wagner played for NZ I watched him bowl a legendary spell of short ball bowling for Otago v Wellington.

I decided to deviate my normal walk home from work to drop in that Basin to watch a half hour or so of the Plunket Shield game.

Before any online video scorecards so had no idea of Wagner's pace, style, height etc ... But he already had the numbers and the reputation as our potential new great post-Bond, but imported, hope.

Anyway. I wander in. Game is meandering, Woodcock is on 90 odd and looking comfortable and Wagner is bowling. OK, but nothing much happening, a few overs of this. Then he bowls a bouncer at Woodcock and hits him on the grill. Then he goes in for the kill. Bouncer after bouncer and Woodcock is looking a liker a complete bunny. Eventually knicks a non-bouncer to slip (I think NcCullum dropped it but keeper caught the rebound). Replaced by Jeetan Patel (or maybe Jeets was already at other end), who also gets the short ball barrage continuing and is streaky as hell ... but eventually gets about 90, but the first 30 odd that I saw that evening were streaky boundaries over gully and slips (or through).

I'll dig up the scorecard to refresh my memory.

https://archive.nzc.nz/Scorecards/349/349179.html

Bowling, I saw Finn, Wagner, Butler, J McMillan (who was good, best seamer not to get blackcaps capped - that I have seen, along with L Burtt probably - for last 30 to 40 years. Same problems, injuries).
In the batting up against them in that match Papps, Franklin, Elliot, Woodcock batting, with a young promising Boam. A finally belatedly recognised, hungry, Murdoch.

Man, Plunket Shield was so strong early 2010s. A weird little glitch in the matrix.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Man, Plunket Shield was so strong early 2010s. A weird little glitch in the matrix.

My theory is it was partially because the NZ side churned through so many players in that time, probably more than half of the domestic comp had international experience. Our weakness in the national side sort of became a positive in the domestic scene ... no doubt it was a quality competition then, and that's sort of continued to the present day, I reckon.

 

[Immenso]

My theory is it was partially because the NZ side churned through so many players in that time, probably more than half of the domestic comp had international experience. Our weakness in the national side sort of became a positive in the domestic scene ... no doubt it was a quality competition then, and that's sort of continued to the present day, I reckon.

Yes, agree, part of it.

Three-fold IMO.

1. Weakness of previous decade meant lots of international experience
2. Domestic contracts came in a decade earlier meant players in this match like Cumming, Papps etc hadn't retired at 30
3. The good mini generation of the 2008 and 2010 U19s were coming through.

Edit. Four fold.
4. Southern African white push factors.

Elliott and Wagner in this match. But Van Wyk, Myburgh, CdG active at this time in PS.

P.s. that generation of players who straddled both the amateur and then domestic retainer era seemed to really appreciate that opportunity. Fulton, Cumming, Sinclair, Papps etc. All went to minimum aged 37.

 

[nzfan]

Missing watching the black caps already... next tour is Bangladesh I think in August?

Steady has mentioned we will see a different team. I guess Kane, Seifert, Jimmy, Santner etc will be away at IPL and won't be part of Bangladesh and Pakistan away tours.

 

[hendrix]

Missing watching the black caps already... next tour is Bangladesh I think in August?

Steady has mentioned we will see a different team. I guess Kane, Seifert, Jimmy, Santner etc will be away at IPL and won't be part of Bangladesh and Pakistan away tours.

Surely Rachin makes his debut in Bangladesh.

Latham
Conway
KW
Boss
Nicholls
Rachin
Blundell
Jamieson
Wagner
Southee
Ajaz

Mitchell/Boult/CdG/A R Spinner 12th man
Also not opposed to Rachin opening and Conway somewhere in the middle order.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Surely Rachin makes his debut in Bangladesh.

Latham
Conway
KW
Boss
Nicholls
Rachin
Blundell
Jamieson
Wagner
Southee
Ajaz

Mitchell/Boult/CdG/A R Spinner 12th man
Also not opposed to Rachin opening and Conway somewhere in the middle order.

It is an ODI and T20 tour. Expect the likes of Guppy, Neesham, Phillips, Daryl Mitchell, Sodhi, Finn Allen, Chapman etc

 

[hendrix]

Damn who gaf about jamodis

 

[M0rphin3]

Are there ODIs? I thought it was just T20s? Gonna be interesting tbh. Reckon it should be comfortable enough win, T20 is BD's weakest format.

Allen
Conway+
Kane
Phillips
Young
Mitchell
Neesham
Jam
Southee
Sodhi
Boult
Lockie

Guppy (I suppose he might play regardless, but been absolutely crap recently), Rachin (would love to see him, but unsure about him in T20s), Young, Santa? idk. Also, is Boss gonna really play?

 

[Bahnz]

Are there ODIs? I thought it was just T20s? Gonna be interesting tbh. Reckon it should be comfortable enough win, T20 is BD's weakest format.

Allen
Conway+
Kane
Phillips
Young
Mitchell
Neesham
Jam
Southee
Sodhi
Boult
Lockie

Guppy (I suppose he might play regardless, but been absolutely crap recently), Rachin (would love to see him, but unsure about him in T20s), Young, Santa? idk. Also, is Boss gonna really play?

Wasn’t Guptill one of NZ’s top runs scorers v Australia last summer?

 

[nzfan]

There are no test matches till we visit India in Dec. 2 test matches in India I think.

First tour is to Bangladesh for 5 t20Is, then Pakistan for 3 ODIs and 3 t20Is. Then then t20 world cup and then the India test series. Long time before we see a test match.

That said none of the IPL players are going to be involved in the Bangladesh and Pakistan tour I think. They'll probably go to UAE and stay put there till t20 wc.

Don't know about Ravindra but Sears will be making the trip I guess to Bangladesh/Pakistan. Rachin may be the right replacement for Santner as well as he's going to be involved in IPL. Unless we see McConchie or Rippon making it ahead of Rachin. Maybe all three will make it if Sodhi won't.

It'd be an interesting squad for sure for white ball.

Kane Williamson (Sunrisers Hyderabad), Trent Boult, Scott Kuggeleijn, Jimmy Neesham, Adam Milne (Mumbai Indians), Kyle Jamieson, Finn Allen (Royal Challengers Bangalore), Mitchell Santner (Chennai Super Kings), Lockie Ferguson, Tim Seifert (Kolkata Knight Riders) likely won't go to Bangladesh/Pakistan.

 

[nzfan]

Wasn’t Guptill one of NZ’s top runs scorers v Australia last summer?

Found his form vs Aussies and the Bangladesh towards the end of the season. Didn't go very well in UAE in the PSL. Munro was the pick of the players in the PSL. Maybe a chance for him to get that one last gig in the t20 wc.

 

[hendrix]

I'm sorry but we cannot pick Sodhi. That is not a thing. Better off keeping Santner than picking Sodhi.

 

[Flem274*]

wouldnt waste rachin on t20. he isnt any good at them and theres more important things to develop him for.

 

[thundaboult]

Sears will be making the trip I guess to Bangladesh/Pakistan.

this could be joocy