I think you excluded runs against Zimbabwe too. ZIM was at least a lower ranked side with the Flower brothers,Houghtan,Campbell,Brandes,Streak, Strang,Godwin etc forming the core group.That means Sachin could still score 12787 runs @57.35 average.Again Sachin had to cope with lots of <25 averaging bowlers during this period. How many Smith played against till date?Again, even after excluding BAN runs, Sachin still averages 57.35 abroad( lot more weightage) during this period. All these counts...
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Top 30 batsmen of the modern era (1990s -Current)
- Thread starter venkyrenga
- Start date
Being the primary spinner doesnt mean being picked as a spinner. See the bits and pieces RSA spinners from the 90s. Not that a single match means anything anyway.
I suspect the point you are making on settled is semantics/poor phrasing from me. What I mean is that he went from 2 years of not getting a game to playing pretty much everything for years afterwards in 2013. The fact that he hadn't completely hit his stride is normal. Its really impressive that he did it after so few matches learning the ropes at test level, especially considering he wasn't in a Voges type situation with a game properly developed, but he wasnt in a Sachin situation either.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
I think Australia lucked out by selecting him just as he was hitting his peak, on that upward curve. Had they let him stay away any longer, he would have still done what he did post 2015 but he may not have had a long enough career by this point to be in the ATG discussions. That is credit to him as well though, think he figured his batting out way quicker than someone else with similar technique might have. He is very Sachin like in how well he works out his own batting but how much he seems to suck as a captain, tactically etc.
venkyrenga
U19 12th Man
Yes, Zim in the 90s and even Ban in the late 00s were decent to good and are actually included in this exercise. But even that average is inflated by the extremely batting friendly era of 2010s. Once you adjust for that it may come to about 55. And after you remove Smith's couple of weak years at the top it would roughly be 7000 @ 64 vs 12000 @ 55.
Hey, for me it's a tough call. I would say lets wait a few years to see if he really better than Sachin. But from what he has accomplished so far it seems like he is up there with him. And if we are talking both formats of the game or a complete batsman, it's definitely got to be Sachin.
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Pap Finn Keighl
International Debutant
whether it be batting friendly or not , Sachin came against lots and lots of <25 averaging bowlers thru out his career. How many <25 averaging bowlers Smith faced in his career till date ? Only 3 comes to mind ... Steyn,Philander & Rabada. Ashwin& Jadeja has <25 but would sure be going
beyond 25 by the time they retires. Bumrah is another one but he has only played abroad till date. So that counts to only 3. On the other hand Sachin faced almost 20 <25 averaging bowlers thru out his career.That determines the quality of bowling Sachin faced. And that is a very important factor too
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Gob
International Coach
Well he wasn't getting picked for his batting alone eventhough he has been making a lot of runs. Selectors at the time were still so high on Warne and towards the end of 09/10 shield season Smith picked a 7 fer for NSW and they picked him in the squad for a NZ tour before the neutral tests vs Pakistan
Anyway when SS returned, I thought he'd turn out to be a Doug Walters type player. Not the best stats but more of a crowd favourite but not to be the case
Slifer
International Captain
In how many series did Sachin average more than 50 where the team had at least two bowlers that averaged sub 25??
Burgey
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So you want to pick a peak period of his and run it against the other bloke's complete career, including when he started out batting eight or whatever? How is that a fair comparison?
I'm not saying it's wrong or ridiculous to put SRT > TPC. That's perfectly valid cos they're just great, great players and when they're that good you're splitting hairs to separate them imo. And if you want to use longevity as a factor, that's cool as well, but maybe just say it's an important factor in your reckoning, cos I don't think you need to select a shortened period of SRT's to make that point. It's like Lara vs Tendulkar, really hard to split them and how you weigh variables will count for a lot. But I think it's a bit unfair to pluck one fella's peak vs the other's full career to do it.
Then again, that's probably the difficulty with comparing someone who's retired with someone who's still playing.
TheJediBrah
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bro just stop
Sachin was great but he doesn't have to come out on the top of everything
don't really get why this is an issue anyway. You're right that he didn't really play Test cricket as a spinner except maybe that game or 2 against Pakistan in 2010, where Marcus North bowled more overs than him anyway. It was ODI and T20I cricket where he played a few years regularly as a spinner. But it doesn't change that he had a couple bad years up until ~2013 that, if you wanted to, you could cut out and get this "6,000 runs @ 75" career.
Slifer
International Captain
This. I agree with completely!!
CricAddict
Cricketer Of The Year
What Bolo is saying is, Smith played just 5 or so tests and not selected for any other tests till he developed his batting and became a full grown ATG while Sachin started in his teens which affected his overall average.
Is there anyone in history who averaged >50 in their teens? I think not. 35-40 is the upper limit.
TheJediBrah
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Agree definitely an outlier in that regard. Hard to imagine many even being selected in their teens these days
(real teens, not Pakistan/Afghanistan "teens")
_00_deathscar
International Regular
Curious how old they were at that point? Sachin had a good England series when he was 17 and the Australia one when he was 19 I think which probably wouldn’t look too dissimilar, but he started at 16.
Victor Ian
International Coach
Perhaps starting as a teen helped Sachin. What makes the greats is their mind set. There was that other guy that was his peer that didn't cut it. Sachin got to master his game where he had to have no chinks that went unnoticed, setting him up for a very long career at the highest level. If he played until 25 before debut he'd have 9 years of bad habits (possibly) to fix up. More conjecture.
One may wonder how much greater Smith might be now if he had started earlier, early enough to have stayed a pure batsman, instead of being persuaded to try and become a bowler.
Sachin is great, awesome, and actually has a completed career being that. We don't need to bring other truely phenomenal efforts down with excuses and what ifs. We just need to watch and see how the remainder of Smith's career progresses and be truthful, that at this stage, he is like nothing we've seen.
One may wonder how much greater Smith might be now if he had started earlier, early enough to have stayed a pure batsman, instead of being persuaded to try and become a bowler.
Sachin is great, awesome, and actually has a completed career being that. We don't need to bring other truely phenomenal efforts down with excuses and what ifs. We just need to watch and see how the remainder of Smith's career progresses and be truthful, that at this stage, he is like nothing we've seen.
the comparison at hand is between Smith & Sachin. When Smith has faced only 3 <25 averaging bowlers against Sachin's 20/21 what is there to even think about what you told?