*Official* World Test Championship Final 2021

[Magrat Garlick]

Those teams aren't exactly happy with the situation though.

true, but neither were 1990s teams, most of them chopped and changed batting orders based on which way the chief of selectors had gone out of bed one morning

 

[Flem274*]

Its not a great look when you cant hold your plan for even 20 balls though, is it? Rohit, Pant and Ashwin all fell to needless front foot cover drives and Rahane had the worst non-Chump brain fade in recent memory.

Kohli held his plan for 132 balls before getting a good one, and Pant misread the swing. He didn't think 'I'm bored, time for a massive drive', he expected the ball to be coming into his bat. Look where his front foot is. If he intentionally chased an outwswinger he would have gotten further forward to reach for it, regardless of outcome.

 

[Pothas]

Wow I'm pleasantly surprised by Ganguly's record there. I remember him being awwwwful against the moving ball.

I was mainly thinking the openers and other hangers on in the comparison, and I think my general point about the average 90s test batsman holds. If you average 35 today even in this era of some pretty silly bowling partnerships, you're out. Back then teams often had no one better and selectors looked on those players more kindly.

Just part of the 00s legacy changing selectorial expectations I guess, but we still look on those 90s players with rose tinted glasses because occasionally they did something good.

Think Ganguly scored loads of runs when he started out in 96, lots of runs in general that summer.

England was a much easier place to bat during the 00s than it has been subsequently as well.

 

[Flem274*]

true, but neither were 1990s teams, most of them chopped and changed batting orders based on which way the chief of selectors had gone out of bed one morning

True, I see your point. We as fans sometimes forget this though, which is why I brought it up when HB thought a 90s side would definitely reach 350. 90s teams loved nothing more than a random collapse.

 

[Moss]

Yeah need the odd bit of proactive or imaginative cricket for batters to succeed in this match IMO given the quality of both attacks. Gill and Rohit’s tactic of walking down the pitch an example. Sure Jaimeson had the final say when he clanged Gill on the helmet, but it did succeed in putting off NZ from finding a consistent line and length, for some time anyway.

Though Williamson looked decent, NZ may have some thinking to do if India apply the squeeze and the pacemen find their range. Ashwin and Jadeja aren’t easy to score freely off.

 

[honestbharani]

Kohli held his plan for 132 balls before getting a good one, and Pant misread the swing. He didn't think 'I'm bored, time for a massive drive', he expected the ball to be coming into his bat. Look where his front foot is. If he intentionally chased an outwswinger he would have gotten further forward to reach for it, regardless of outcome.

Nah, it was not a I am bored shot but it was a shot out of desperation to score having been tied down that long, which is the point. Anyways, we are arguing in circles here. I am not saying NZ did not bowl well and set up pressure to pick up those wickets. They absolutely did. But that is what they did post hour 1 yesterday too and we rode it better. We failed there today and it has cost us big time now. Unless NZ or the weather mess this up, they have it in the bag.

 

[Teja.]

Wow I'm pleasantly surprised by Ganguly's record there. I remember him being awwwwful against the moving ball.

Early Ganguly was an excellent test batsman and averaged about 50 in the 90s over 30-35 tests. Then, once he became captain, he became awful (mostly) against all types of bowling everywhere in the 00s for ages till '07 which was when he had a great final season, followed by an average season in '08 when he retired.

 

[Burner]

I don't think Kohli has to be more aggressive at all. His gameplan is perfect imo. If anything there are periods where his tendency to go after the ball takes over before he wrestles himself back to being wary. Him not scoring runs has nothing to do with his approach which I don't think is unnecessarily meticulous in the first place. The runs will come as long as he's playing the same way.

 

[Flem274*]

Unless NZ or the weather mess this up, they have it in the bag.

Leaving aside the other stuff, this genuinely isn't certain. If it were a test side outside the top 3 and it was dry, then yes. India are a properly good side regardless of the outcome of this game though, and if their journey to the final has taught us anything it's that they can always come back at you with a vengeance. They recovered from 36 all out and dropping a home test to England, this is nothing in comparison, just a bad day.

 

[honestbharani]

They recovered from 36 all out and dropping a home test to England, this is nothing in comparison, just a bad day.

Those two were the same too though.. what it shows is that one bad day is enough to lose a test for this team. And I fear it may have already happened.

 

[Flem274*]

Early Ganguly was an excellent test batsman and averaged about 50 in the 90s over 30-35 tests. Then, once he became captain, he became awful (mostly) against all types of bowling everywhere in the 00s for ages till '07 which was when he had a great final season, followed by an average season in '08 when he retired.

Oh cool interesting. I came into cricket just as he got **** then. I never rated him much as a batsman away from home but did love his medium pacers. This little stats nugget is making me reevaluate him with a kinder light though.

 

[honestbharani]

I think Ganguly made his comeback in 2005 against Pakistan, @Teja. and was very very good till the average 2008 at the end.

 

[Flem274*]

Those two were the same too though.. what it shows is that one bad day is enough to lose a test for this team. And I fear it may have already happened.

Bro every time OverratedPrecam slits his wrists India get a meme wicket or smoke a four or something. Your Gambhiring game is top notch, you don't need this posting.

 

[honestbharani]

Bro every time OverratedPrecam slits his wrists India get a meme wicket or smoke a four or something. Your Gambhiring game is top notch, you don't need this posting.

I wish I was Gambhiring. NZ have just outplayed us so far. We always knew they were gonna most likely outfield and outdiscipline us but they have also outtalented us here. We will be lucky if we get them for 250.

 

[Burner]

India don't have the batsmen to overturn anything more than 80 or so run lead to set up a competetive total. The batsmen are just not good enough. Unless one of the two who can actually hold a bat in England really have a good day, it can be tough going.

 

[Moss]

I think Ganguly made his comeback in 2005 against Pakistan, @Teja. and was very very good till the average 2008 at the end.

The comeback was in South Africa 2006 actually . Had looked useless against pace and spin alike for the previous 18 months and got dumped under the Chappell-Dravid regime, and of nowhere returned to play some gutsy knocks against Ntini Steyn and co and enjoyed a good run till 2008 like you said.

Raina really should have taken a leaf out of his book on being crap against the short ball and still making it in tests.

 

[Teja.]

I think Ganguly made his comeback in 2005 against Pakistan, @Teja. and was very very good till the average 2008 at the end.

He failed horribly against Pakistan in 2005 though (HS of 21 in 3 games). The 2007 Home series v. Pakistan is when he made those 2 hundreds including a 239, along with a 90 and other good scores.

 

[Teja.]

The comeback was in South Africa 2006 actually . Had looked useless against pace and spin alike for the previous 18 months and got dumped under the Chappell-Dravid regime, and of nowhere returned to play some gutsy knocks against Ntini Steyn and co and enjoyed a good run till 2008 like you said.

Raina really should have taken a leaf out of his book on being crap against the short ball and still making it in tests.

Yeah, that SA series was at the end of 2006 (December) and beginning of 2007. He scored a 50 in the two SA tests in Dec 2006 but in the third SA test he made twin scores in Jan 2007 which I considered his comeback. Either way, effectively his comeback was the 2007 period.

 

[Teja.]

Oh cool interesting. I came into cricket just as he got **** then. I never rated him much as a batsman away from home but did love his medium pacers. This little stats nugget is making me reevaluate him with a kinder light though.

He started this career with Dravid in the mid-90s, produced a similar quality of output for the first 4-5 years of his career and was considered a similar level talent. Up till 2000 or so, he had a great test record and multiple centuries away from home along with being considered one of the best ODI batsmen in the world. He was considered all set to have an excellent, if not great test career from then on when he was appointed captain.

His batting is actually not remembered in a kind light by a lot of test cricket fans though because it was felt that for the next 6-7 years, he took his batting for granted as he was the selectorally invincible captain for most of the period and there was a certain cbf-ness about his batting for years and years. He averaged in the mid-30s in the 00s till that 2007 comeback year which was in stark contrast to his early output and expected potential. This was when he was batting in an otherwise ATG Indian batting line-up with Sehwag, Laxman, Dravid, SRT etc which made his failures stand out even more.

His captaincy is remembered extremely fondly though, as it should be.

 

[honestbharani]

Ganguly flopped in 1999 in Australia and I dont think he was the same since. Was not too flash in South Africa back in 96 either.