What is your ALL TIME WORLD XI TEAM for tests?

[_00_deathscar]

I looked back in this thread to see what I'd put as an ATG team, and just saw me slagging off Peter Shilton for the same thing I was slagging him for not long ago, gawd I'm a repitive bore.

Anyhoo

Hobbs
Grace
Bradman
Kallis (almost purely as a bat)
Viv
Sobers (almost purely as a bat)
Gilchrist
Imran
Hadlee
Garner
Murali

It'll do.

I know he’s in contention but surely no one is ACTUALLY picking Kallis purely on batting alone?
If he gets in it’s as an all rounder.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I know he’s in contention but surely no one is ACTUALLY picking Kallis purely on batting alone?
If he gets in it’s as an all rounder.

I don't see why not. His bowling isn't that good anyway and his batting was elite. If he never bowled he'd still be in the discussion.

 

[grecian]

I know he’s in contention but surely no one is ACTUALLY picking Kallis purely on batting alone?
If he gets in it’s as an all rounder.

Why not his batting records hold up against anyone, really, I suppose he might get a few overs. As would Sobers and Grace, but TBH my bowlers liked bowling long spells, even though my version of Imran would be the quick younger one.

On another day though I could easily have picked, Sanga,Lara, Hammond, Ponting, Chappel, Barrington, Tendulkar, even Steve Smith though it would hurt my eyes, I guess I have gone for solidity amongst the stroke players.

 

[rtramdas]

I'm not looking at plain averages, I looked at how they bowled in country by country basis, their peaks, watched either of them bowl on YouTube and read a lot of what other people think and frankly you are the only person to suggest Kapil is anywhere near as good a bowler as Imran

Lack of support goes both ways ftr look at Murali and bowling huge amount of overs is admirable but if he got wickets more frequently, he wouldn't have to bowl that many. Nathen Lyon must have bowled many more overs than Pat Cummins that doesn't make him better. I don't know about ball tampering allegations. Fair enough if you take that to account I won't. As they say, its ain't cheating if you don't get caught

The bolded statement matter is not dependent on the 'ability of the concerned bowler' alone . Quality support bowlers helps a lot. It is a fact that the more high quality batsmen stays at the crease and faces more number of balls , the more there confidence & concentration grows and then it gets more and more difficult to get the batsman out. That is the nature of the game of cricket itself. This is where quality support bowlers
helps.

If you are the lone quality bowler in your team, the opponent batsmen will play out you very carefully and feed off the 'loose deliveries' from other bowlers and grow in confidence. And then when you return for your subsequent spells it is not the nervous minded batsmen at the start , but well settled confident batsmen you have to deal with.The practical result of this matter is that you would be facing situations like 250 for 3 , 300 for 4 lot more often than 125 for 5, 200 for 6 etc etc situations.Naturally your captain would call upon you to break well settled huge partnerships because of you being the lone quality strike bowler in the team. Then the well settled batsmen at the crease will belt you for lot more runs.

I have seen this a lot often in the game. Australia benefitted a lot from Magrath/ Warne partner ship especially against strong sides like England and South Africa.When ever ENG/SAF batsmen would survive Mcgrath and try to build partnerships Warne would come and completely destroy the momentum of the team innings. Jadeja & Ashwin are doing the same in Indian conditions. Do you firmly believe that Marshall would have been the same bowler in the company of say Agarkar,V.Prasad,Mohanty rather than what was with Garner,Roberts & Holding?

Again , I didn't claim Kapil is near as good, I only said Kapil's 29.64 average deserve 26.25 based on the contexts he played in.

W.R.T tampering , not only opposition players of Imran, several of his own countrymen including fellow players have been giving testimonies w.r.t this aspect for years now.Again this is not to certify as to whether a person is legally innocent or guilty but to develop your own perception of the person based on circumstances and there by evaluating his credentials. In my mind he is a cheater and can't simply accept him as a great bowler because of that.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

So what average do Murali and Hadlee deserve? 18?

 

[Burgey]

In my mind he is a cheater and can't simply accept him as a great bowler because of that.

There's so much to unpack in this post, but in particular this part.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Rubel Hossain would have averaged 25 with the ball and been an ATVG on par with Jimmy Anderson if he was in a stronger bowling attack

 

[h_hurricane]

Rubel Hossain would have averaged 25 with the ball and been an ATVG on par with Jimmy Anderson if he was in a stronger bowling attack

The scary part of this is, how much Anderson would have averaged, if he had Rubel Hossain for company.

 

[rtramdas]

There's so much to unpack in this post, but in particular this part.

If required, I can quote names of at least 10 people who gave testimonies w.r.t this matter.

 

[grecian]

I disagree with rtramdas on Khan but let's face it everyone who has picked any spinner over Murali is clearly using his logic.

 

[honestbharani]

I disagree with rtramdas on Khan but let's face it everyone who has picked any spinner over Murali is clearly using his logic.

Hmmmmmm... Interesting. ?

 

[Burgey]

If required, I can quote names of at least 10 people who gave testimonies w.r.t this matter.

Probably better you don’t, from a libel POV. I don’t think it’s any secret Imran could peel an orange one handed with a bottle top though

 

[Burgey]

I disagree with rtramdas on Khan but let's face it everyone who has picked any spinner over Murali is clearly using his logic.

The comparison would be apt if they changed the laws to allow ball tampering, or if chucking was the basis for excluding Murali, as opposed to him being trash against the best side of his era.

 

[TheJediBrah]

The scary part of this is, how much Anderson would have averaged, if he had Rubel Hossain for company.

I think we just found @Flem274* 's next thread

 

[rtramdas]

So what average do Murali and Hadlee deserve? 18?

Murali had Vaas as a fellow bowler. Vaas was a quality seamer with average of 29.58 . Again lot of people don't rate Murali which is deserving of his stats and you would know the reason, I assume.

W.R.T Hadlee , agreed he lacked strong support bowling. But longevity & work density factors favoured him as is evident in his stats.

 

[Starfighter]

Is a bowler's average really affected that much by their support? Surely a team's bowling effectiveness is essentially the sum of the individual bowlers. Doesn't necessarily follow that one misses out because the others aren't very good, unless they're spraying the ball everywhere.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

No

No lol

He was an ATG bowler. He took about the same wpm as Kapil but was way, way better

No.

Miller
170 wkts, 11 years, 95 innings,

Kapil

172 wickets from just 76 innings

After 96 innings - 238 wickets

After first 11 years - 329 wickets from 162 inninngs

Also, Miller bowled in better conditions with great support.
If he is an ATG test bowler, then Klusner is an ATG ODI batsman.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

I also rank posters based on density factors.

 

[grecian]

The comparison would be apt if they changed the laws to allow ball tampering, or if chucking was the basis for excluding Murali, as opposed to him being trash against the best side of his era.

Without going through old arguments, Murali's poorer record against Oz, is nothing compared to Warne's hideous record against the best players of spin at the time.

92 wickets more at 3 better, not really comparable IMHO.

 

[ataraxia]

No.

Miller
170 wkts, 11 years, 95 innings,

Kapil

172 wickets from just 76 innings

After 96 innings - 238 wickets

After first 11 years - 329 wickets from 162 inninngs

Also, Miller bowled in better conditions with great support.
If he is an ATG test bowler, then Klusner is an ATG ODI batsman.

Miller didn't bowl much in certain games due to resting/workload/injury concerns and other bowlers being proficent as well. Presumably in an actual AT side he would be fully fit.