What is your ALL TIME WORLD XI TEAM for tests?

[Lillian Thomson]

Not like theres much difference between Procter and Imran as bowlers.

The main difference is that only one of them had a proper Test career irrespective of anything else.

 

[Red]

I’ve always thought Imran is grossly overrated on Cricketweb when he’s considered to be the greatest bowler, cricketer, or even Human Being, ever. But the idea that you have have six of the greatest batsman in history plus Gilchrist at 7 and then chuck in Kapil Dev or Proctor at 8 instead of Imran because they might eek out a few more runs is completely bonkers.

I think it's important that your number 8, and number 9, can bat a bit. Having Imran/Hadlee at 8 means Gilchrist has some that'll at least hold an end while he adds a quick 50 or more to the score. They're also absolutely elite bowlers.

That said I am more than happy with batsmen the calibre of Marshall and Warne at 8 and 9 in this context.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

I’ve always thought Imran is grossly overrated on Cricketweb when he’s considered to be the greatest bowler, cricketer, or even Human Being, ever. But the idea that you have have six of the greatest batsman in history plus Gilchrist at 7 and then chuck in Kapil Dev or Proctor at 8 instead of Imran because they might eek out a few more runs is completely bonkers.

When facing an attack of Miller, Davidson, Marshall, Murali and Lillee, you better make your batting strongest as possible ( without compromising bowling strength ) .. So the only option available is Procter.

And i dont understand, how Imran is better than Hadlee for that position, Hadlee slightly better bowler and better fielder. Imran's batting slightly better but it wont make a big difference as in the case of Kapil or Botham.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Procter played 7 tests

7 tests and 9 WSC/super tests.. That is 16 in total.

 

[Line and Length]

Then there is the greatest cricketer of last 50 years
Mike Procter.. ATG bowler, Gun Fielder, and Terrific Lower order batsman

One gets accustomed to occasionally reading sweeping statements that are, quite frankly, right over the top.
I saw Proctor playing in the 70s and he was undoubtedly a mighty fine player. However, the "greatest cricketer of last 50 years" is stretching it.

 

[Bolo.]

Again , this is in response to my eleven , i suppose. Kallis for me is the GOAT allrounder. He simply can't be exempted. The eleven is not based strictly on the 'best position wise'. More over, Kallis' record 'one down' was very good indeed. His bowling credentials too were taken into account for selecting him.

Just swap the two around and let both bat in their preferred positions, no need to mess with 2 proven successes.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

One gets accustomed to occasionally reading sweeping statements that are, quite frankly, right over the top.
I saw Proctor playing in the 70s and he was undoubtedly a mighty fine player. However, the "greatest cricketer of last 50 years" is stretching it.

ATG bowler + Aggressive batsman capable of Averaging 35 + Superb fielder
Undoubtedly Greatest since Sobers IMO.

Its like a combination of Hadlee bowling and Kapil batting, I dont know anyone better in last 50 years.

Also Procter is a guaranteed ATG unlike Barry Richards, a 10% dip in performance would make Barry a Sub 50 avg batsman in international cricket. Procter still would be a Botham / Kapil league cricketer.

Procter played 16 high quality tests ( official + unofficial ) in a time span of 10 years, averaged 33 with bat, 17 with ball. All the evidences available indicates an arguably greatest cricketer since Sobers, if not the greatest since sobers.

 

[trundler]

Its like a combination of Hadlee bowling and Kapil batting, I dont know anyone better in last 50 years.

You don't know if that would've translated to test level. Hadlee had several years averaging mid to high thirties in CC while also being a premier bowler. Sobers too averaged ~27 and ~48 (from memory) and this was pretty late in his career when he was well past his 60s heyday. In fact, in the 7 tests he did play, Procter's stats pretty clearly favoured one discipline. We're already being pretty generous here by awarding him Hadlee status with the ball without much evidence but making him out to be some all round Ubermensch the like of which has never existed despite counter evidence is surely over the top.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

At least an irrational Procter fanboy is something a bit different.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

You don't know if that would've translated to test level. Hadlee had several years averaging mid to high thirties in CC while also being a premier bowler. Sobers too averaged ~27 and ~48 (from memory) and this was pretty late in his career when he was well past his 60s heyday. In fact, in the 7 tests he did play, Procter's stats pretty clearly favoured one discipline. We're already being pretty generous here by awarding him Hadlee status with the ball without much evidence but making him out to be some all round Ubermensch the like of which has never existed despite counter evidence is surely over the top.

AFIK, Procter was a bigger CC superstar than Hadlee. And I rate Hadlee among top 3 cricketers of last 50 years.
9 out of 10 people will rate Procter higher in both disciplines when comparing to Kapil Dev, who himself is a true legend of the game. ( in fact Procter is the only member in "inarguably better than Kapil in both disciplines club" )

7 tests is not good enough sample size to make any opinion on his greatness. Even though the numbers are extra ordinary with a positive difference of 10 between bowling and batting averages.

Hadlee + Kapil might not be an exact representation of his talent.. Because Hadlee supposed to be a better bowler and Kapil supposed to be an inferior batsman, But as an overall combo, that is the level of Procter's calibre. I should have given a more accurate representation like Donald + Botham.

 

[Burgey]

But Imran was both a better batsman and bowler than Kapil anyway. I don’t get why you’d make Kapil the comparison for Procter when he bowled that joke Vaas pace and was at best a sporadic genius down the order with the bat. He’s third of the four 80s test allrounders, miles behind Imran and Botham and ahead of Hadlee, whose batting was really Mitchell Johnson standard at best.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

But Imran was both a better batsman and bowler than Kapil anyway. I don’t get why you’d make Kapil the comparison for Procter when he bowled that joke Vaas pace and was at best a sporadic genius down the order with the bat. He’s third of the four 80s test allrounders, miles behind Imran and Botham and ahead of Hadlee, whose batting was really Mitchell Johnson standard at best.

Thats news to me.
In his first 60 tests Imran scored 2 centuries and 9 fifties ( he took 15-16 years to reach 60 tests )
By that time
Hadlee scored 1 century and 13 fifties in 66 tests
Kapil scored 5 centuries and 17 fifties in 82 tests.

Imran was more of a Hadlee type batsman when he was a great bowler. No comparison to the likes of Botham or Kapil.

 

[Burgey]

Imran averaged 37 and 23 in tests, Dev averaged 31 and 29. I suppose that makes Dev more consistent but that’s a huge disparity in numbers

 

[Burgey]

Which isn’t to say Kapil isn’t a great player, just I prefer one of the others if I had to choose one in an AT side. The more relevant question i suppose is whether you want/ need an allrounder in such a side to begin with. Am very much 50/50 on that tbh, when you can have a recognised bat instead.

 

[trundler]

Given Imran will be at #8, discrediting his batting seems weird anyway.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah but I can see why Procter can be a better #8 than Imran given their respective styles of play.

I would rather play Wasim or Davison for the variety, personally.

 

[h_hurricane]

On a different note, how much does the performance against the best matter while picking an ATG XI ? Because, that is the likely quality you will be up against when picked to play in such a team.

Kapil was hands down the best all rounder of the quartet against the WI. And Botham hands down the worst. And it is not as if the sample size is small. More like 20-25 tests. Gives an indication on how they would have fared when up against a hypothetical ATG team.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Kapil was hands down the best all rounder of the quartet against the WI.

Kapil averaged 30.82 with the bat vs the WI and 24.89 with the ball from 25 tests.

Hadlee averaged 32.41 with the bat vs the WI and 22.03 with the ball from 10 tests.

Weirdly Kapil's bowling was very poor in NZ (bowling av of 42.13) and England (39.18) in conditions which should've suited. He did very well with the ball at home, in Australia, and in the Caribbean.

 

[h_hurricane]

Kapil averaged 30.82 with the bat vs the WI and 24.89 with the ball from 25 tests.

Hadlee averaged 32.41 with the bat vs the WI and 22.03 with the ball from 10 tests.

True. Sample size does matter however. Hadlee is up there as well on second thought.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Imran averaged 37 and 23 in tests, Dev averaged 31 and 29. I suppose that makes Dev more consistent but that’s a huge disparity in numbers

Imran's batting avg is boosted by disproportionate number of not outs.
Kapil scored much faster, and some of his performances are ATG quality.

But the biggest difference is Kapil remained the same player he is throughout the career, while Imran transformed from "ATG bowler + Hadlee type Batsman " to " specialist batsman + decent bowler " in the last 5 years or so.
You can not expect Imran to combine both phases and performing as ATG bowler + proper 35 avg batsman.