Virat Kohli vs Rahane

[Himannv]

Virat and Rahane are the greatest supporters of each other while playing in the same team.
I'll still go with Kohli as my captain for all three formats. Instead of who wins how many
matches as a captain or who scores more runs or more tons, we all want the Indian Team
to keep ruling the format.

Yes, but which one do you reckon would have had a better modelling career?

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Yes, but which one do you reckon would have had a better modelling career?

Are you still posting in character from Culture Wars maf?

 

[Arachnodouche]

One issue I have with Kohli is that he seems incapable of putting himself in shoes of other players. Keeps talking about intent, body language and **** because that's how he motivates himself. Being aggressive and in-your-face brings the best out of him but that's not how most players are wired. He thinks if only players tried harder, had more passion they would be champions. That's not how it works.

This is based off his off field comments obviously, we don't know how he handles team in the dressing room.

He's mental lol. He was carrying on inside an empty Chepauk ffs.

 

[Himannv]

Are you still posting in character from Culture Wars maf?

I'd have preferred to grunt and roar like a monster instead, but that's just not happening.

 

[Manee]

One issue I have with Kohli is that he seems incapable of putting himself in shoes of other players. Keeps talking about intent, body language and **** because that's how he motivates himself. Being aggressive and in-your-face brings the best out of him but that's not how most players are wired. He thinks if only players tried harder, had more passion they would be champions. That's not how it works.

What an astute and clever observation about leadership. (I know this may sound sarcastic but being serious).

 

[angelmarco]

I guess.....

If i am not wrong... Kohli has now blamed everyone and everything except himself:

Support spinners didnt create enough pressure.

Batsman didn't do their job.

SG Ball is bad.

WTC points are illogical.

-----

Not that there isnt merit in any of his points, but it feels like he sells everyone down the river.

Maybe i am reading too much into it but this has been pretty sub par leadership on and off the field.

 

[nightprowler10]

What an astute and clever observation about leadership. (I know this may sound sarcastic but being serious).

Yeah its such a simple thing but so many people in leasdership positions just don't get it. Not commenting on Kohli, just in general.

 

[Manee]

Yeah its such a simple thing but so many people in leasdership positions just don't get it. Not commenting on Kohli, just in general.

Yes. And it is difficult because the powerful, extraverted leader has endured for a reason - it does have tremendous value as well as drawbacks.

 

[Deleted member 38150]

On the other hand, I feel there is a direct correlation with our pace attack getting better and him taking over captaincy. Its hard to say anything, I suppose he can relax a bit more on the field or maybe leave Rahane to interact with the bowlers etc. There are many ways we can have the best of both worlds here, really.

This I am not sure, I think he just has got lucky with Bumrah coming into the team during this period and Shami too..
Just imagine what could have been if these two played along with our Fab 4 in 90's and 2000's. We would have given Aus a tough fight.
We just lacked decent fast bowlers then.. Bumrah is indeed a once in a life time freakish fast bowling monster, who came out of no where to MI team especially due to IPL. He was indeed a find of MI basically and later on went on to represent India. I am not sure how much kohli contributed to his success.. Kohli definitely helped to bring in a fighting attitude to the team (after the dark days of Dhoni getting whitewashed everywhere), but he also misses innovative captaincy and being able to understand the opposition and counter attack them with change of plans by thinking on your feet. When going gets tough, he simply starts yelling at his own team mates, which puts more pressure on them and team morale goes down fast..

Kohli the batsman is world class and we are fortunate to have him in the team, but kohli the captain is debatable..

 

[honestbharani]

his I am not sure, I think he just has got lucky with Bumrah coming into the team during this period and Shami too..

Bumrah was literally groomed into a red ball bowler by this management. And Shami and Ishant's performances have been noticeably different under Virat. So has Umesh, actually.

 

[Deleted member 38150]

Bumrah was literally groomed into a red ball bowler by this management. And Shami and Ishant's performances have been noticeably different under Virat. So has Umesh, actually.

Bumrah is such a "once in a generation" talent, he would have shined and improved no matter who was the captain. He played extemely well under Rahane as well or Rohit in MI. Do we credit steve waugh for mcgrath's achievements? He would have been a world class bowler no matter who was the australian captain then.. I feel Bumrah is at the same level. He can walk into any team in the world today and be their strike bowler..

 

[honestbharani]

Bumrah is such a "once in a generation" talent, he would have shined and improved no matter who was the captain. He played extemely well under Rahane as well or Rohit in MI. Do we credit steve waugh for mcgrath's achievements? He would have been a world class bowler no matter who was the australian captain then.. I feel Bumrah is at the same level. He can walk into any team in the world today and be their strike bowler..

If you cant understand the difference between how he looked when he debuted for India and how he is bowling now and the fact that he very much was a white ball bowler and his red ball performances have LITERALLY nothing to do with Rahane or Rohit, its tough to keep up the discussion. You seem to be very keen to paint every failure as Virat's fault and every success as "would have happened under anyone". Hard to argue with that logic.

 

[Bolo.]

If you cant understand the difference between how he looked when he debuted for India and how he is bowling now and the fact that he very much was a white ball bowler and his red ball performances have LITERALLY nothing to do with Rahane or Rohit, its tough to keep up the discussion. You seem to be very keen to paint every failure as Virat's fault and every success as "would have happened under anyone". Hard to argue with that logic.

I watched Bumrah on test debut, and thought he was raw as hell, but was likely to be the best Indian quick ever once he had settled into tests.

Then I saw Kohli refuse to play him all the time.

There is a chance something Kohli did behind the scences that helped nurture Bumrah, but all I see is the guy with unholy talent who developed into (admittedly somewhat more than) his clear potential despite struggling to get a game.

 

[honestbharani]

I watched Bumrah on test debut, and thought he was raw as hell,

That is the thing. He had NOT played FC cricket in the 12-15 months leading up to his debut and the guy who made his test debut there was NOT the guy who last bowled in a FC game with the red ball. THAT is the improvement that was brought upon by the team management working with him bowling with a red ball exclusively behind the scenes.

The Indian Team's own, and successful, Atul Sharma project.

 

[Himannv]

Yeah its such a simple thing but so many people in leasdership positions just don't get it. Not commenting on Kohli, just in general.

Agreed, but not all leaders are the same either. Some are aggressive and lead by example, while others might have a more measured approach to it or perhaps tackle the role with more empathy. To make it all work, you need to right kind of leader to work with the right people to fix the right problem.

 

[Bolo.]

That is the thing. He had NOT played FC cricket in the 12-15 months leading up to his debut and the guy who made his test debut there was NOT the guy who last bowled in a FC game with the red ball. THAT is the improvement that was brought upon by the team management working with him bowling with a red ball exclusively behind the scenes.

The Indian Team's own, and successful, Atul Sharma project.

First i am hearing of this. But you are saying he was a very successful team india project, which is probably not the same as a kohli the test captain project. Kohli the test captain kept him out of the team when even the dumbest CW pundits knew he belonged.

 

[honestbharani]

First i am hearing of this. But you are saying he was a very successful team india project, which is probably not the same as a kohli the test captain project. Kohli the test captain kept him out of the team when even the dumbest CW pundits knew he belonged.

Lol.. you realize what you are saying right? My point is they unleashed him when they felt he was ready but the project was definitely the entire management's. But a large part of that was Virat himself. And my original comment here was that if you can blame Virat for every failure of every player when he was captain, you have to acknowledge his role when they succeed too.

 

[Bolo.]

Lol.. you realize what you are saying right? My point is they unleashed him when they felt he was ready but the project was definitely the entire management's. But a large part of that was Virat himself. And my original comment here was that if you can blame Virat for every failure of every player when he was captain, you have to acknowledge his role when they succeed too.

I am debating from a point of serious ignorance here, which is not a good start, but you are saying Indian cricket had a big role in Bumrahs development, which Kohli must surely be a minor cog of? I am seeing crap selection polices, which he was intrinsic too.

I am not debating the fact that Kohli as a captain was some part of India going beast mode... how much, we have no idea. What we do know, clearly is how much his crappy selection policies hurt India. I will hate the guy as a captain from here to the death of the universe, cos he repeatedly denied us something we thought was impossible... an atg indian attack.

 

[sunilz]

Sun rises in the East.
@honestbharani : Some part of this must be attributed to Kohli.

 

[honestbharani]

I am debating from a point of serious ignorance here, which is not a good start, but you are saying Indian cricket had a big role in Bumrahs development, which Kohli must surely be a minor cog of? I am seeing crap selection polices, which he was intrinsic too.

No, I am saying he was part of the same management to the same level who made some crappy selection decisions but also made some brilliant decisions that gave us our best test match bowling attack yet for the last 4 years now.