*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[thundaboult]

Kind of shocking to think that ODI's won't matter until late 2022. I'm afraid by then that it could be curtains for CDG, Gup, and perhaps even Henry. Would love to see Taylor sticking around but he will 39 by the time we stage our final squad. Hopefully he keeps churning out the runs. ODI's are soooo his thing in present day n age, he can't go from ball 1 so t20's not ideal, can't play a marathon innings so no tests, but can still do the in-between so ODI's are a good fit for him still.

Hopefully Ravindra, Ashok and Sodhi become more of a thing. Santner's place is untouchable.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

I don't agree that Santner's ODI place is unquestionable, he does average 37.5 overall ... 50.9 in 2019 and 75.5 in 2020 (although only three games).

 

[thundaboult]

They will never drop santner in LO's dawg

And if Duffy gains 5km he could actually replace Henry. Has a dope list a rec

 

[thundaboult]

Loving the options we have in each position, and quality options too. What a time. Will relish it.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

They will never drop santner in LO's dawg

Well you basically have to forget how to play cricket to get dropped from the Blackcaps in any format.

 

[Athlai]

I don't agree that Santner's ODI place is unquestionable, he does average 37.5 overall ... 50.9 in 2019 and 75.5 in 2020 (although only three games).

Santa has an economy under 5 in this era. That is more important in limited overs than his average IMO.

 

[SteveNZ]

It’s interesting, I’ve heard so many people ‘in the know’ talk about how talented Vincent was. Personally I never saw it and I’m not just talking about his results, I’m talking about how he looked at the crease at international level.

Also he always gets talked about as a wasted talent who got mucked around, yet my distinct recollection is almost the opposite - a pretty hopeless ODI player who got waaaay too many chances primarily because of a perception that he looked the part.

Maybe he could’ve had a more defined role in test cricket, but he never really put up the performances to actually deserve an extended run.

I guess when I say talented, I mean he had an incredible eye and range of strokes. I’ve only seen a couple of guys who had absolutely no issue with pace BEFORE they played for NZ - Lou was one, CDG the other. CdG is a bit of a different cat, not in the same way Louey was but he's been able to exist in this side, be forgiven for his failures and still make a massive impact.

I'd like to think Lou could've made it today. I know he didn't feel comfortable in the 2000s environment, in terms of the egos in the team, Bracewell, being shunted around the order etc.

 

[Athlai]

Lou was also a cheat so really doesn't deserve a lot of this theory crafting. Yeah his whole life could've been different, yet in the cricket world he was a spud and should be remembered as a spud.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

He also should be remembered for his pants falling down

 

[jcas0167]

Agree Vincent was super talented. In his book, McMillan actually rated him the most talented batsman he played alongside.

I think Parore was a talented batsman too, but that side of his game slipped away towards the end of his career although he did get that excellent century at the WACA. He was replaced for the end of the 92/93 and most of 93/94 by Tony Blain. When he came back his batting was excellent and Turner of course used him as a specialist number 3. When Rixon took over the team he reportedly said Parore was the best keeper (Germon was the WK/captain), the best fielder, the best batsman, does he bowl?

 

[SteveNZ]

Lou was also a cheat so really doesn't deserve a lot of this theory crafting. Yeah his whole life could've been different, yet in the cricket world he was a spud and should be remembered as a spud.

Yeah he was a cheat, but there’s much more to it than that. He was manipulated by Player X and had his mental health issues work against him in the worst way. I know, he’s an adult, he cheated, he copped a wack. But to those who knew him, he was a good bloke and the guy who deserved the most heat avoided it.

And he’s not known in the cricket world as a spud either.

 

[Flem274*]

vincent's issue iirc was he hated the moving ball. was always far too happy to go as hard as possible which worked on highways even if they were fast and bouncy, not so much anywhere else.

could definitely play, just had a serious case of red mist. he's pretty typical of the batsmen auckland have been producing since crowe retired.

 

[Moss]

Kind of shocking to think that ODI's won't matter until late 2022. I'm afraid by then that it could be curtains for CDG, Gup, and perhaps even Henry. Would love to see Taylor sticking around but he will 39 by the time we stage our final squad. Hopefully he keeps churning out the runs. ODI's are soooo his thing in present day n age, he can't go from ball 1 so t20's not ideal, can't play a marathon innings so no tests, but can still do the in-between so ODI's are a good fit for him still.

Hopefully Ravindra, Ashok and Sodhi become more of a thing. Santner's place is untouchable.

There are some ODIs vs Bangladesh this summer and a few later this year against Pakistan (if NZ do travel). Pathetically small number but you make do with what you get so I'd hope a number of players outside that first choice XI are trialled. Hope Taylor goes all in and is able to make good on his stated goal of playing the 2023 WC.

For the Bangladesh ODIs would be fun to experiment a bit and go with:
Ravindra, Young, Conway (KW gets a rest), Taylor, Latham (c/wk), Phillips (or Chapman), Neesham, Santner, Jamieson, Henry, Duffy

 

[thundaboult]

In other news, the seemingly forgotten Munro has scored 3 BBL fifties in 7 games at a good strike rate. I really hope the rumors of him being axed from t20i's carry no weight. With two back to back t20wc's he NEEDS to be in. Still our best T20 bat ever behind Mccullum imo. A top 3 of gup (hopefully he fires, he's probably just 1 knock away), munro and seifert would be ideal.

Adam Milne has been alright. Kinda like his international career. A good couple games in the beginning but has petered out a bit. Really hope he becomes that strike bowler who takes wickets up top and at the death.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Guptill's done, I reckon. Hasn't scored a 50 at any level in at least his last ten innings (that's as far back as the cricinfo history goes).

 

[kaetor]

I would like to move away from both Munro and Guptill personally. I think we'll persist with Guppy, but it does feel Munro and NZC are a little at odds over the BBL stuff?

 

[Ghost]

A real shame that there's no more test cricket at home this summer. Be that in mind here are the stats for the 14 players who featured in tests for us this summer

Tom Latham: 203 runs @ 40.6
Tom Blundell: 113 runs @ 22.6, 2 catches
Kane Williamson (hallowed by thy name): 639 runs @ 159.75, 1 wicket @ 17
Ross Taylor: 141 runs @ 35.25
Henry Nicholls: 405 runs @ 81
BJ Watling: 115 runs @ 28.75, 18 catches
Daryl Mitchell: 153 runs @ 76.5, 1 wicket @ 41
Kyle Jamieson: 133 runs @ 66.5, 27 wickets @ 12.25
Tim Southee: 22 runs @ 11, 18 wickets @ 24.05
Neil Wagner: 85 runs @ 85, 13 wickets @ 22
Trent Boult: 14 runs @ 11, 14 wickets @ 35.07
Will Young: 48 runs @ 24
Mitchell Santner: 25 runs @ 25, 2 wickets @ 29.5
Matt Henry: 1 wicket @ 93

Kane & Kyle clearly the players of the summer, with Nicholls (with lots of opposition help), Southee, Wagner the next best for me. Mitchell didn't do anything wrong with the bat but doesn't appear to be as effective with the ball as CdG. Would have expected more from Latham, Taylor & Boult. Watling still looks to be athletic behind the stumps despite the more frequent injuries he seems to be having.

Questions for me going forward
Who should our second opener be as I don't think it's Blundell? Should Young or Conway be brought in? Is it too early for Ravindra?

A bit concerned about Taylor's form. It doesn't seem that long ago that he and Kane were in a race to see who would pass Crowe's record for 100's. Now Kane is 5 100's ahead. Also dropped a couple of catches. Is it time for him to focus on ODI's and bring in Young/Conway?

When needed who is our best spin option?

What does Trent have to do to get his mojo back?

 

[nzfan]

Nice round up, put in good effort to put those stats up. Definitely time for Conway to be slotted in but I know they'll go for Young first then Conway.

If our test series is in sub continent they'll go for Ravindra no doubt about that. Having a batter that can bowl good spin there's no better choice. At home there'll be no changes, 5 pacers works fine unless playing at Seddon park or mount.

No need to tinker the bowling line up otherwise. It's as good as it can get for now.

I'd take a Taylor averaging 35 any day. He'll play one or two crucial knocks in a series and that's good enough for the kind of experience he brings.

I know it's a long shot but they have to start thinking about Ben Sears and not let him spend all his energy bowling in first class cricket. At least get him in the one day format and get there in a year or two in test cricket. A bowler like him with pace and bounce is crucial when playing overseas. Hate to see him go lockie way playing 2-3 test matches by the time he's 30.

We almost missed out on Jamieson, if they had gone by his plunkett shield records the last two years he'd have not made the team. Thank god for some A games that got him in. I think the one day game for NZ A last year got him there.

Similarly hope they don't do to Ravindra what they've done to young. 28 years plus and 2 games to show.

I'd definitely think Ravindra, Nathan Smith and Ben Sears should feature in one day cricket. I'd definitely not leave them at first class for too long. We need these three for the one day world cup couple of years later. They can work their way up to test cricket in a year or two.

Besides most countries now are opting for leg spinners in one day cricket having a left handed bat in the top or middle order will help.

 

[TheBrand]

For the ODI side are we still settling on Latham at 5? I personally would rather Nicholls move back to 5 and bring Conway in at the top.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

For the ODI side are we still settling on Latham at 5? I personally would rather Nicholls move back to 5 and bring Conway in at the top.

Who keeps if you drop Latham? Does Conway? Or do you bring in one of Blundell, Seifert, or Phillips? Lots of options.