*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[Flem274*]

@Slifer

Nzl then < Now

(moved this from the aus - ind thread) not enough arrows here. i don't think people realise the gap between the two batting generations (unless both generations are touring aus, then flip it on its head). henry nicholls, the most under pressure current player, has more test hundreds and a higher average than styris, oram, mcmillan and cairns and a higher average than fleming and astle.

this isn't to say he's better than fleming or astle (he's not, those two pulled some insane knocks out of their arses between middling scores), but standards and expectations are so much higher now despite bowling making a serious comeback after the 00s. some of the guys listed above had mid to low 40s averages for a while before falling off a cliff (styris, oram, mcmillan, astle) but if they played today they would be remembered in a different light imo.

kane, ross and watling stroll into the 00s side. latham too, we would have killed for (yet another) sri lankan basher back in the day.

 

[Flem274*]

Cricket: Black Caps in talks for marquee test series - NZ Herald

The Black Caps could soon be travelling for a high-profile test tour.

www.nzherald.co.nz

Not holding out too much hope for this given that similar talks for a November test series v Aus ended up going nowhere. Still it would be great to see. Would be super excited to see what Jamieson can do with a Duke in his hand.

premium blocked. assuming an england series?

im going to talk so much **** through that series.

 

[Slifer]

@Slifer

(moved this from the aus - ind thread) not enough arrows here. i don't think people realise the gap between the two batting generations (unless both generations are touring aus, then flip it on its head). henry nicholls, the most under pressure current player, has more test hundreds and a higher average than styris, oram, mcmillan and cairns and a higher average than fleming and astle.

this isn't to say he's better than fleming or astle (he's not, those two pulled some insane knocks out of their arses between middling scores), but standards and expectations are so much higher now despite bowling making a serious comeback after the 00s. some of the guys listed above had mid to low 40s averages for a while before falling off a cliff (styris, oram, mcmillan, astle) but if they played today they would be remembered in a different light imo.

kane, ross and watling stroll into the 00s side. latham too, we would have killed for (yet another) sri lankan basher back in the day.

Agreed, NZ has a classy batting lineup. Much much better than their 90s or 00s counterparts. Probably the only teams they seem to have issues with are Australia (generally) and india away.

 

[Bahnz]

premium blocked. assuming an england series?

im going to talk so much **** through that series.

Yep, 2 tests this winter, prior to the WTC final.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Yep, 2 tests this winter, prior to the WTC final.

That would be a great warm up, if we do make the final.

 

[Flem274*]

Yep, 2 tests this winter, prior to the WTC final.

still too snobby to play us 3 times i see

hopefully jamieson can control that yorker with the h4x ball

 

[Flem274*]

kanes best knock is on youtube

 

[Immenso]

Of the players who have played NZ A the last 2 years.

I have compiled their career records for NZ 'A':
Batsmen:

	Matches	Runs	Ave	100s	50s	HS
Ravindra	11​	594​	42.42​	1​	4​	144*
Cooper	2​	55​	18.33​	0​	1​	54​
Young	12​	636​	45.42​	2​	3​	133​
Seiffert	10​	488​	37.53​	1​	2​	111​
Phillips	9​	453​	37.75​	2​	1​	136​
Conway	0​	-	-	-	-	-
J Carter	3​	67​	16.75​	0​	0​	35​
M Bracewell	5​	250​	27.77​	1​	0​	135​
McClure	2​	66​	22.00​	0​	0​	24​
Chapman	3​	244​	61.00​	1​	0​	114​
Rutherford	7​	354​	50.57​	1​	2​	114​

Keepers:

	Matches	Runs	Ave	100s	50s	HS
C Fletcher	4​	216​	43.20​	1​	1​	103​
Cleaver	6​	401​	57.28​	1​	3​	196​
Blundell	4​	127​	21.16​	0​	1​	60​

 

[Immenso]

The NZ 'A" allrounders:

 

[Immenso]

NZ 'A' bowlers:


Spinners:

	Matches	Wickets	Ave	5Wi	Best
Ravindra	11​	12​	62.08​	1​	6-89
M Bracewell	5​	1​	97.00​	0​	1-37
Rippon	1​	1​	52.00​	0​	1-8
Phillips	9​	0​	-	-	-
McConchie	3​	6​	49.83​	0​	3-33
Sodhi	11​	22​	50.45​	0​	4-60
A Patel	2​	3​	89.00​	0​	2-145

Seamers:

	Matches	Wickets	Ave	5Wi	Best
Henry	4​	15​	23.86​	2​	6-53
Nuttal	3​	8​	21.12​	1​	5-54
Rae	4​	10​	42.70​	0​	4-54
D Bracewell	9​	27​	31.07​	2​	6-42
Kuggeleijn	8​	19​	32.57​	0​	4-54
N Smith	3​	9​	18.33​	0​	3-29
Duffy	5​	9​	31.00​	0​	4-47
Tickner	9​	19​	34.31​	0​	4-80
Sears	1​	1​	76.00​	0​	1-76
Jamieson	5​	5​	73.60​	0​	0​

 

[Immenso]

Takeaways.

Henry and D Bracewell still setting the standard for the seamers.
Jamieson had a surprisingly bad record (But, I think he might have done well in the List A games for NZA)

McConchie has so far impressively stood up when gone up a level.

Hard to separate (on stats) the cohort of batsmen; Young, Seiffert, Phillips, Ravindra, Chapman.

N Smith and Ravindra look made to go up the levels.

Mitchell deserved his CdG replacement role.

We have a lot of good keeper / batsmen.

No spinner has taken his opportunity. But I think all games at home except one India tour (plus Sodhi had a second India tour about 8 years ago).
Sodhi's PLunket Shield record is really good but his 'A' record has a bowling average 20 runs higher (same as his test record).

 

[_Ed_]

Both John Reids gone now, and within a couple of months of each other.

 

[Jezroy]

The commentary team, no Doull, way less bantz with da boiz, less cynical tone, the in depth interviews in breaks in play have been great, they’d never happen on sky, the general coverage between sessions is vastly improved with better analysis, and the viewer question thing is a good idea - they’ve picked a good mix of questions too. Post day’s play the interview session with three presenters and a player is very good too, compare that to the 30 seconds with Laura we used to get ... it’s been like chalk and cheese for me.

Not the only time Laura’s had 30 seconds with a player AM I RIIIIIIGHT?!?!

 

[Flem274*]

a huge amount of retro cricket has been taken down from spark. they must be in an argument with someone. maybe sky nicked it back so they can promptly never show it again.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

a huge amount of retro cricket has been taken down from spark. they must be in an argument with someone. maybe sky nicked it back so they can promptly never show it again.

Hard drive was down to 5%.

 

[nzfan]

I can see why some are peeved at spark sports nabbing the coverage, experienced it first hand. We went on a holiday and stayed at our bach by seaside. The cellphone coverage was quite non existent, maybe at 3g in some spots in the bach. We have sky but they don't cover NZ cricket, highly appreciated by wifey

I suppose reasonable percentage off population may not have best of the broadband and cellphone coverage outside of urban and towns. If you don't watch it for couple of days or three it becomes a habit not to bother watching. I think NZC may have lost good number of fans with spark sports deal.

At least radio sport used to be handy but not anymore. To listen you need reasonable broadband as well. Wonder if it's actually working out for spark at all. Would love to see their TRP for cricket. Don't think it'll be flashy.

 

[Flem274*]

@SteveNZ

richardson - not 'talented' at all compared to latham and blundell, but had grit they can only dream of
vincent - not as talented as the current openers, loves a road
sinclair - unfufilled talent
fleming - slightly unfulfilled talent, should be kane/crowe level imo
astle - solid player but not a patch on kane/taylor. capable of amazing knocks on occassion.
mcmillan - specialist #6 who loved a road. nowhere near kane/taylor
cairns - fantastic player, injured half the time
vettori - under fleming he was quite a good bowler
parore - great keeper, not much of a batsman
bond - amazing bowler, fleming barely had him
martin - would never play a test today. 6th best quick bowler in nz if around now imo so gets this hagley test.

latham - probably the most talented opener since turner
blundell - pretty talented player, would play over parore in 2001 imo
williamson - atg, god level talent
taylor - crowe/fleming level talent
nicholls - astle/styris/mcmillan level talent
watling - not hugely talented, but near rigor levels of grit
cdg - incredible talent, zero brain, fantastically skillful 5th bowler
jamieson - bond level talent
southee - cairns (bowler) level talent
wagner - is wagner
boult - cairns (bowler) level talent

current side is so far ahead in talent it's not funny. we would have murdered puppies for some of kanes players in 2001.

 

[SteveNZ]

Yeah, honestly I don't see the gap in talent. I see it in results, but not ability/talent. I mean for a start, Vincent is a more talented player than Blundell. Lou had crazy ability. And I hear you on Bond, although Cairns was there enough and his results nowhere near reflect what he should have produced.

To me (only my opinion) Kane is ruthless because guys in our team have to aspire to dedicate themselves to the job like he does. There is zero place for passengers, for Jesse Ryders, for guys who don't give 100% to the cause. Fleming carried a lot of guys like that, and happily so if they were part of the ego brigade. Parore was a hugely talented sook who never got dropped. Cairns the same. McMillan probably around about the same.

I guess that guys like Vincent, Sinclair etc (who didn't fit the ego mould) would have been regulars in this day and age under Kane. Lou had mental health issues and couldn't perform in that environment, which in the end left him susceptible to Player X's advances. I feel hugely sorry for Lou, he was/is a genuinely good bloke. Sinclair might not have made it, but certainly he would've had more chance today. Again, he had no chance back then with guys like McMillan openly shunning and making fun of him in the environment. Would never happen today, any player would be welcomed in if they were prepared to work hard.

So I hear you, Fleming was a vocal leader who never took a backward step. He had some magic qualities and was a better tactician than Kane. But 46 50s and 9 tons, for a guy who was very strong with the bat, doesn't set a standard. Kane does, with a quieter voice but an unshakeable force in terms of the standards he sets at all times.

I totally respect that you rate Fleming higher. I rate him highly too, but not close to Kane IMO

 

[SteveNZ]

Williamson - 59 average with the bat, 57% win rate as captain
Fleming - 40 average with the bat, 35% win rate.

That's obviously important too, especially the first part if you think they had different abilities to work with.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Sinclair and especially Vincent would really have benefitted from the rope the selectors give these days and the settled spot in the batting order. Think we absolutely messed up Vincent by changing his role countless times.