The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Flem274*]

best pakistan side i have seen

azhar ali
mohammad hafeez
inzi
younis khan
misbah
sarfaraz ahmed
abdul razzaq
yasir shah
mohammad abbas
mohammad asif
shoiab

oof that tail. im being deliberately controversial here because i never was a moyo fan. has a superb record but when he was outside his comfort zone oof he was terrible. my view is heavily coloured by his tour down here and in aus though. he should be in here but he annoyed me by being unable to handle it above knee height so he isn't despite his beautiful beard. shoiab malik immediately disqualified for similar reasons.

there were so many meme openers i wanted to squeeze in (khurram manzoor when he had the funky technique a particular highlight) but despite being a meme himself in tricky conditions, hafeez has made a good career for himself as an extremely versatile allrounder.

sarfraz is in here despite me wanting haider for his quirky little career of being decent then retiring 'out of terror for his life'.

abdul razzaq what a guy, one of my favourite pakistani cricketers. this side was always going to contain him. the quicks are the best despite me wanting to find space for umar gul but yikes at that tail.

if this team were to tour nz i'd probably drop yasir, shuffle hafeez to #7 with razzaq at #8 and play taufeeq umar or maybe even some manzoor or farhat for fun. hafeez is all the spin you need for modern nz conditions.

edit - misbah in for babar. sorry kid, misbah is a living legend

 

[vcs]

Babar will almost certainly end up as Pakistan's best ever batsman.

 

[trundler]

I expect him to finish above MoYo and Abbas at the very least but it's not like YK or Miandad were unexceptional batsmen. You do have to be special to have the kind of WC he did at 25 though. Fingers crossed.

 

[honestbharani]

The best thing about Babar is he seems to have a decent head on his shoulders, amazing given he is from the Akmal clan.

 

[vcs]

He has figured out Test batting now so I have no more doubts.

 

[trundler]

All the elements are there, like Williamson in his early days. And yeah, he seems like a very nice chap. No diva tendencies so far. That 100 in Australia was very promising.

 

[honestbharani]

He may well end up the Ponting to Kohli and Smith's Tendulkar-Lara.

 

[honestbharani]

And I love KW and Joe Root but they have surely fallen back a peg these days in test match batting.

 

[trundler]

That's especially apt because he's a little younger than those 2. I was going to ask vcs where he thinks he'll end up. Tendulkar/Lara level? Sanga/AB?

 

[honestbharani]

But I just said Ponting. So, over rated by his countrymen, under rated by others..

 

[honestbharani]

That's especially apt because he's a little younger than those 2. I was going to ask vcs where he thinks he'll end up. Tendulkar/Lara level? Sanga/AB?

Yeah Lara and Sachin started around the turn of the decade in the 90s, and Virat and Smith started around the turn of the decade in 2010. Ponting started around 95, Babar around 2015, I guess? Could well be history repeating itself.

 

[trundler]

Career trajectory is sort of similar to Kohli I think. Already one of the best ODI batsmen around before finding his feet in tests. Successful at U19 level and technique is top notch.

 

[ankitj]

A friend shared this Babar Azam punch through covers: https://www.facebook.com/85633169312/posts/10157741829604313/

My jaw dropped at how quickly he picked up the length and got in position. Genius level skill.

 

[honestbharani]

Career trajectory is sort of similar to Kohli I think. Already one of the best ODI batsmen around before finding his feet in ODIs. Successful at U19 level and technique is top notch.

I am pretty sure Ponting came in and made a few scores in ODIs before he established himself in tests too? I mean, he did debut earlier in tests but I think he made his name in ODIs before he became a test mainstay.

 

[trundler]

I will never forget the way Kohli owned Malinga in 2012. The way he took him off his length and drove his yorkers to the leg side was baffling. Had future ATG written all over it. I think hitting Steyn around was that moment for Babar.

 

[trundler]

I am pretty sure Ponting came in and made a few scores in ODIs before he established himself in tests too? I mean, he did debut earlier in tests but I think he made his name in ODIs before he became a test mainstay.

I think he established himself as the permanent ODI number 3 before he had that horror run in '01. And his age group cricket feats were legendary too.

I know ODI batting has gotten easier but it's baffling how far ahead Kohli is ahead of prodigious talents like Tendulkar and Lara. You can't be much more naturally talented than those guys but in terms of output he's well clear. Mind-blowing really.

 

[honestbharani]

I really still don't think Virat is more gifted than say a Rohit Sharma, forget Babar levels of gifted. But he has the attitude to make it happen. And that is what always differentiated him. If you dig up old posts on Kohli during his debut, you will see how I always felt he will be something (a Ponting for India, at best) but he keeps surpassing whatever levels we imagine for him. Same for Steve Smith actually. Neither of these guys set the scene on fire on arrival or even looked like the next big thing, a la KW or Joe Root. But their mindset is what seperates them and that is why Steve Smith is so ahead of Kohli as a test batsman and Kohli is so so ahead of Smith as an ODI batsman too. They seem to have a single minded determination to go reach the next level even if they already have proven to be the best at something. If Babar can find similar mental strength, the sky is the limit really for his potential.

 

[vcs]

That's especially apt because he's a little younger than those 2. I was going to ask vcs where he thinks he'll end up. Tendulkar/Lara level? Sanga/AB?

It's hard to say exactly. I think he's got the potential to end up averaging 50+ across formats. He is also not one of the unlucky bunch of 2010-2020 who had to play the prime of their careers in front of empty UAE stands. Technically, his game is as good as you could ask for, so it's just that the other stuff needs to fall into place.

 

[vcs]

In the post-Big 3 era, it's also becoming harder and harder to compare players because there's such a pronounced distinction in the career sample sizes you get for a Joe Root or a Kohli, vs. a Pakistan/SL/NZ player. At least SA still seem to play a decent amount of Test cricket and longer series, Pakistan and NZ hardly get those 3-4 match tours at all these days. And India-Pak Test cricket is still a fantasy.

 

[Shady Slim]

And I love KW and Joe Root but they have surely fallen back a peg these days in test match batting.

so much this, there is no smith-kohli-root-williamson "big four" anymore, though i do think williamson can jump back up and make it a big three