The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[kyear2]

One from each decade XI, with one player from pre WWI era.

Hobbs(1920s)
Hutton(1940s)
Bradman(1930s)
Smith(2010s)
Richards(1970s)
Sobers(1960s)
Gilchrist(2000s)
Marshall(1980s)
Warne(1990s)
Trueman(1950s)
Barnes(Pre WW1)

Brilliant effort and concept.

Quite possibly the best best restriction XI I've seen on the forum. The openers are the best possible, that middle order would be absolute carnage, superb cordon, and Marshall and Trueman would be a fine opening partnership as any. If Barnes was indeed a seamer (as the video showed possibly demonstrated he was) then the team is close to flawless, though I believe the team Baggy chose to oppose it may just nip this one in the bowling department. Hadlee, Steyn, Akram and Mutalitharan backed up by Miller is just immense.

 

[Flem274*]

if kohli wants to be on the smith tier and not the kane tier he better start scoring the runs to show it

the difference between smith and the rest was on display last summer. despite struggling with a bowler big time, smith still lasted a million balls and made some scores. any kiwi who could hit the deck hard with some movement was lining up for a go at The Big Hype several weeks later.

 

[h_hurricane]

2 great rivalries of the past 50 years. This time though, I will pick the rivals in the same team and have them lock horns against the other set of rivals.

A combined ashes XI since 1970s to play against a combined India - Pak XI of the same period.

Graham Gooch
Alastair Cook
Ricky Ponting
Steve Smith
Steve Waugh
Allan Border
Adam Gichrist
Ian Botham
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Glenn Mcgrath

vs

Sunil Gavaskar
Rahul Dravid
Younis Khan
Sachin Tendulkar
Virat Kohli
MS Dhoni
Imran Khan
Kapil Dev
Wasim Akram
Waqar Younis
Anil Kumble

 

[stephen]

so much this, there is no smith-kohli-root-williamson "big four" anymore, though i do think williamson can jump back up and make it a big three

Williamson and Root are closer to Kohli than Kohli is to Smith in tests. Smith and Williamson are closer to Root in ODIs than Root is to Kohli.

 

[h_hurricane]

It is insane to think how much Smith has already achieved. I wouldn't argue against anyone who ranks him the second best batsman of all time. I would just about go with Sobers though.

 

[kyear2]

It is insane to think how much Smith has already achieved. I wouldn't argue against anyone who ranks him the second best batsman of all time. I would just about go with Sobers though.

I just find it amazing that he has already apparently surpassed the trio of Tendulkar, Richards and Lara.

 

[h_hurricane]

I just find it amazing that he has already apparently surpassed the trio of Tendulkar, Richards and Lara.

Yep, not an unfathomable opinion at all. People who rate Tendulkar, Richards and Lara higher(I too belong to that group at this moment), are right from the perspective of their whole career and great longevity. On the other hand, people who think Smith is better aren't entirely wrong either. Both arguments have decent merits imho.

 

[Red]

I just find it amazing that he has already apparently surpassed the trio of Tendulkar, Richards and Lara.

In order to go past Richards, Ponting, Tendulkar and Lara, I'd like to see him maintain these standards up to and past 120 tests. Smith has still only played 70s tests, not even a half of Ponting's tally, and barely a third of Sachin's. Even Viv played 120 in the 70s and 80s

I reckon you start having these conversations once a batsman has played 100-120 tests, especially players from Eng/India and Aust in modern times.

 

[honestbharani]

I dont believe in comparing people in the middle of their careers to those who have finished. I like to keep the ATG discussions to the ones who have hung up, although there are certain obvious things like Smith being ATG in tests already and Kohli being so in ODIs. But to do proper ranking etc., it makes more sense for me to keep them seperate.

 

[stephen]

Smith could conceivably miss the equivalent of a couple of years of his prime due to his ban and now covid.

 

[Spark]

Smith could conceivably miss the equivalent of a couple of years of his prime due to his ban and now covid.

?

He'll likely miss one tour because of covid max

 

[stephen]

?

He'll likely miss one tour because of covid max

Who knows really?

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I'm DOG will invent an equation to factor in global pandemics.

 

[Red]

I'm DOG will invent an equation to factor in global pandemics.

Adjusted averages

 

[h_hurricane]

It will be a pity if covid would take out a few years from the careers of potential greats like Bumrah, Azam etc. They may not end up with as good numbers as they could have.

 

[Victor Ian]

I'd hope it helped Bumrah. Now he has had time for a complete and full recovery, rather than being pushed into a heavy load straight after resumption. Now he just has to work on getting back his rhythm.

 

[kyear2]

In order to go past Richards, Ponting, Tendulkar and Lara, I'd like to see him maintain these standards up to and past 120 tests. Smith has still only played 70s tests, not even a half of Ponting's tally, and barely a third of Sachin's. Even Viv played 120 in the 70s and 80s

I reckon you start having these conversations once a batsman has played 100-120 tests, especially players from Eng/India and Aust in modern times.

I agree, I remember thinking at one point midway through Ponting's career that he would remembered as the best of the era and 2nd behind only the Don.

Also when it comes to Smith, and I know it may not be popular among most, but when I think of Tendulkar, Richards and Lara I think of the sustained rivalries (successes and failures) against the great ones they faced. McGrath, Warne, Murali, Akram, Ambrose, Hadlee, Imran etc. And I know one doesn't get to decide who they face and this in no way demoted his undisputed ATG status or even from the top 10. Just not sure about top 3 coronation quite as yet.

 

[stephen]

But Smith has dominated all comers. He conquered India in India, facing their two statistically strongest spinners. He conquered England in England, facing Broad, Anderson and Archer. He conquered everybody in Australia (except Wagner I guess). He really doesn't have any holes in his resume. Unless you count Bangladesh.

He's got a batting average of over 40 against every country and in every country with the exception of Bangladesh. He's faced every decent bowler of his generation and come out on top (except Bumrah who he hasn't faced in tests yet).

 

[stephen]

Averages over 70 in Australia, 60 in England and India and over 100 in the West Indies and New Zealand. The four countries he's struggled in (relatively) are the UAE, South Africa, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, where he averages 43.5, 41, 41 and 29 respectively. He's a statistical monster at this point and it's a shame he got banned for the year because it would have been amazing to watch him face Bumrah and Shami in 2018/19.

 

[Flem274*]

it's only going to look more impressive with time as well. bowlers are remembered more when you don't have them, and the world is rich in bowlers atm. even india have them!