*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[nzfan]

Where do you find the scorecards for these matches?

It's available in what you call the NZ Cricket pooch. I have access from the past so looked up.

 

[straw man]

Nuttall is still alive?

Seriously though, would be in with a good shout of an NZ call up if he wasn't so injury prone.

Jamieson, Tickner and Nuttall could be a pretty handy attack at some point in the future

I've been meaning to for a while but haven't found the time - to look up some old NZ bowling attacks from say 2008-2012 which consisted of Chris Martin, whoever was alive of other 34 yr-olds, very young Southee and Boult, bad late-career Franklin and Tuffey and some randoms...
to ask, which current domestic bowlers would have made those sides ahead of the worst bowler we actually picked?

Obviously Henry and Ferguson would've played many tests already, but looking beyond them Jamieson and Nuttall of those above would've likely debuted at least. And there are perhaps half a dozen others.

Hard time to force your way into the NZ test bowling attack.

 

[TheBrand]

I’ll always love him for hitting the first ball he faced in test cricket for six.

Mark Craig is one of the best battlers we ever produced. Probably sounding like a broken record here but that test he got injured, (1st test vs India in India) he bowled the best out of all our spinners. Had great drift and control and got Kohli as his 50th test wicket. Hoping he works himself back into the frame to be honest.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Mark Craig is one of the best battlers we ever produced. Probably sounding like a broken record here but that test he got injured, (1st test vs India in India) he bowled the best out of all our spinners. Had great drift and control and got Kohli as his 50th test wicket. Hoping he works himself back into the frame to be honest.

I watched the highlights of that second test today, tbh he had a big hand in the result. 99 lower order runs without being dismissed, and a lot was added from the other end while he was at the crease as well. Three good catches in the slips, including a great one to get Stokes, I think, in the first innings. 5 wickets for 121 @ 2.08 rpo, hardly that bad, and he got Cook, Bell, Root and Buttler, so not like he just cleaned up the tail-enders. Cook in the first innings to break a 177 run opening partnership was a great ball, and Bell and Root in the space of three balls in the second innings was pretty crucial too.

I mean if you contributed that every match you'd be pretty hard to drop.

 

[TheBrand]

I watched the highlights of that second test today, tbh he had a big hand in the result. 99 lower order runs without being dismissed, and a lot was added from the other end while he was at the crease as well. Three good catches in the slips, including a great one to get Stokes, I think, in the first innings. 5 wickets for 121 @ 2.08 rpo, hardly that bad, and he got Cook, Bell, Root and Buttler, so not like he just cleaned up the tail-enders. Cook in the first innings to break a 177 run opening partnership was a great ball, and Bell and Root in the space of three balls in the second innings was pretty crucial too.

I mean if you contributed that every match you'd be pretty hard to drop.

Yep and that was all on top of having a pretty poor 1st test at Lords. The way he bounced back was fantastic. Bit of stats analysis:

-He played 15 tests
-Of those 15 tests, NZ won 6, drew 2, lost 7.
-Of the 6 tests we won, he played a significant role in 5 of them including MOTM in 2 of them.

That's a pretty good hit rate if you ask me. Obviously you can go the other way and the 7 we lost with him he didn't bowl that great but he did make significant contributions with the bat.

I overall kinda felt like the more he played the better he would get. Wouldn't be surprised if he makes a comeback a la Jeetan Patel when he's 35 or something.


Side note: when does our T20 squad get announced?

 

[SteveNZ]

Yep and that was all on top of having a pretty poor 1st test at Lords. The way he bounced back was fantastic. Bit of stats analysis:

-He played 15 tests
-Of those 15 tests, NZ won 6, drew 2, lost 7.
-Of the 6 tests we won, he played a significant role in 5 of them including MOTM in 2 of them.

That's a pretty good hit rate if you ask me. Obviously you can go the other way and the 7 we lost with him he didn't bowl that great but he did make significant contributions with the bat.

I overall kinda felt like the more he played the better he would get. Wouldn't be surprised if he makes a comeback a la Jeetan Patel when he's 35 or something.


Side note: when does our T20 squad get announced?

I'm about as anti-impartial as it gets, but calling Mark a spud serves no justice to the path he had to tread to get to where he did.

He was fourth choice off-spinner in his club side as a 20-year-old. That's not a word of over exaggeration. He had chronic fatigue around the same time, couldn't get out of bed for long periods of time. He worked his arse off with Dipak Patel to become the bowler he ended up, and as your stats suggest he won - or highly influenced - Test matches at a time where we were crying out for spinners to do so. A real three-skill cricketer.

 

[Flem274*]

mark craig was an extremely hot or cold bowler who won more tests for us than daniel vettori ever did or could

 

[Athlai]

Of the 33 wickets Mark Craig took in Test wins, he probably earned about 10 of them. Bloke is a spud who benefited from a mixture of luck, conditions and having a great amount of pressure built at the other end. I always think of his 10 wicket bag in Sharjah, and how incredibly many wickets he got from Pakistan just not giving a **** after the devastating news about Phil Hughes. It was like they were aiming at the fielders in their sheer misery at having to play cricket. Game looked set for a draw until Baz and Kane scored 400 runs at a run a ball and gave us a 300+ lead with a day to spare.

And of course, Craig was awful in the second innings and scraped the 3 wickets he needed while being overbowled by Baz after just getting constantly knocked around.

(Sodhi was even worse tbf)

 

[straw man]

But seriously, what is Cole McConchie doing anywhere near this side.. He's the classic bits and bobs cricketer from way back. Might be worthy of playing for Canterbury (pretty sure he had a good couple matches late last season after producing nothing for far to long), but playing for NZ? Sorry. That's a wasted spot for an up and comer.

Is there something in McConchie's batting that you don't like? I can't say I've exhaustively watched his highlights and particularly not his defense (of course his hits some nice boundaries but that doesn't necessarily mean much), but he has one of the better batting records around for a 27 year old*.

12-13: 43 at 8.6
15-16: 124 at 24.8
16-17: 491 at 49.1
17-18: 452 at 25.1
18-19: 342 at 42.8

Clearly had a bad time in 17-18 which iirc was also when he took the captaincy, but was good last season which was a bowlers' year. Overall average dragged down severely by his first two seasons.

* yes this does also say something about the quality of other early-mid 20s batsmen around, apart from Will Young.

 

[Kippax]

Yes he's a higher verbal IQ character, McConchie, and took a blinder of a catch last season to suggest he's not that unco kind of higher verbal IQ character. Those who dismiss as an Alecz Day could yet be bitten tbh, in a Henry Nicholls vs. Cribbage sort of way.

 

[straw man]

Yes he's a higher verbal IQ character, McConchie, and took a blinder of a catch last season to suggest he's not that unco kind of higher verbal IQ character. Those who dismiss as an Alecz Day could yet be bitten tbh, in a Henry Nicholls vs. Cribbage sort of way.

Yes and he's captaining his side which should be a good thing, though admittedly has sometimes been a separate branch (and eventualy ghetto) for the smart 25 year old batsman who is not immediately earmarked for NZ duty. It's one that Will Young started into but jumped back out of.

But another good season, maybe post Taylor and then have an unjury, and it's currently unclear who would be the next up after Young.

 

[jcas0167]

Yes and he's captaining his side which should be a good thing, though admittedly has sometimes been a separate branch (and eventualy ghetto) for the smart 25 year old batsman who is not immediately earmarked for NZ duty. It's one that Will Young started into but jumped back out of.

But another good season, maybe post Taylor and then have an unjury, and it's currently unclear who would be the next up after Young.

Robbie O'Donnell might come into that category now. McConchie is unfurling some nice drives this morning against Boult & Wagner, will be interesting to see if he can kick on against what is virtually a test attack.

 

[Bahnz]

Yes and he's captaining his side which should be a good thing, though admittedly has sometimes been a separate branch (and eventualy ghetto) for the smart 25 year old batsman who is not immediately earmarked for NZ duty. It's one that Will Young started into but jumped back out of.

But another good season, maybe post Taylor and then have an unjury, and it's currently unclear who would be the next up after Young.

Phillips was outstanding last season, and is making a strong start today. Given all the exposure he gets to international cricketers from playing in the CPL he'd definitely be in with a shout in the near term.

 

[straw man]

Robbie O'Donnell might come into that category now.

O'Donnell for sure, and not a batsman but same for Duffy.

Phillips was outstanding last season, and is making a strong start today. Given all the exposure he gets to international cricketers from playing in the CPL he'd definitely be in with a shout in the near term.

Phillips definitely a leading candidate on the back of just a whole lot of ball striking ability - pleased to see he's testing himself batting 3 now too. A couple of saffers will be in the mix soon, plus a few others like Seifert (sans wicketkeeping) and at a stretch Chapman or Solia. But every one of these needs a really strong showing the next season or two - you'd have no confidence giving a test debut to one tomorrow e.g. if Taylor injured himself before the England series (yay back to Worker). It will be interesting to watch.

Fortunately we're likely to continue playing an AR and WK at 6 and 7 for the foreseeable future so it's only a backup to 4 and 5 we need to concern ourselves with.

 

[Flem274*]

Of the 33 wickets Mark Craig took in Test wins, he probably earned about 10 of them. Bloke is a spud who benefited from a mixture of luck, conditions and having a great amount of pressure built at the other end. I always think of his 10 wicket bag in Sharjah, and how incredibly many wickets he got from Pakistan just not giving a **** after the devastating news about Phil Hughes. It was like they were aiming at the fielders in their sheer misery at having to play cricket. Game looked set for a draw until Baz and Kane scored 400 runs at a run a ball and gave us a 300+ lead with a day to spare.

And of course, Craig was awful in the second innings and scraped the 3 wickets he needed while being overbowled by Baz after just getting constantly knocked around.

(Sodhi was even worse tbf)

wahhhhhhh

the bolded belongs on your pakpassion account

he's ten times the test bowler jeets is, and you can't deal

 

[Athlai]

And yet has the same Test average. Weird.

 

[straw man]

I thought Craig's bowling to win that test against England might've been a springboard to newfound consistency. However iirc I only watched highlights of that and he may not have been consistent at all, as per comment below.

Its only because England were batting to save the game and ignoring all the full tosses and half trackers he bowled. I remember Graeme Swann being really scathing of his bowling at the time - saying any spinner worth his salt would've picked up 5 or 6 for sfa on the 5th day.

Turns out that was his career peak anyway, fell away badly after that.

I still hope he stays match fit after that back injury and has a couple of good final years for Otago - when you think of the best ball he can bowl, it has more drift and turn and bounce than most NZ spinners.

 

[Athlai]

I can't track down the scorecards for these inter squad games?

But seriously, what is Cole McConchie doing anywhere near this side.. He's the classic bits and bobs cricketer from way back. Might be worthy of playing for Canterbury (pretty sure he had a good couple matches late last season after producing nothing for far to long), but playing for NZ? Sorry. That's a wasted spot for an up and comer.

I also think Rance has had his chances, good domestic bowler with his early swing, but doesn't have enough IMO to be effective after that..

Taste it

 

[straw man]

It's a registered and verified taste on McConchie, though Rance's wickets so far have indeed been new or new-ish ball.

 

[Bahnz]

I've been meaning to for a while but haven't found the time - to look up some old NZ bowling attacks from say 2008-2012 which consisted of Chris Martin, whoever was alive of other 34 yr-olds, very young Southee and Boult, bad late-career Franklin and Tuffey and some randoms...
to ask, which current domestic bowlers would have made those sides ahead of the worst bowler we actually picked?

Obviously Henry and Ferguson would've played many tests already, but looking beyond them Jamieson and Nuttall of those above would've likely debuted at least. And there are perhaps half a dozen others.

Hard time to force your way into the NZ test bowling attack.

Yeah, if Henry and Ferguson had been born a decade earlier, they would've both probably have played 30+ tests by now (Henry probably closer to 50). Nuttall might've gotten a callup, but he wouldn't have last long given how injury prone he is. Asides from Jamieson I'm not sure who else would even be in the running. Even in the period you cite, the bowling was still generally the team's stronger suit - it was only really in 2010 - after the double-retirement of Bond and O'Brien, that it was totally rubbish. By late 2011 we were already seeing the first green-shoots of the Soult era.

The real opportunity for our time travelling domestic cricketers would've been amongst the batsmen. Young would've played 30+ tests by now, Munro I'm sure would've been given more than his one aborted shot at test cricket. Cameron Fletcher and Dane Cleaver would both have been obviously better bets than Reece Young or Kruger van Wyk, and would've allowed McCullum to settle in to specialist batting years earlier. Rachin would probably already have debuted for NZ, and the selectors would be desperately counting down the days to Conway's qualification.