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*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread
- Thread starter NZTailender
- Start date
The Hutt Rec
International Vice-Captain
He’s making it look very easy out there ... maiden first class hundred is calling.
Athlai
Not Terrible
Ah, I imagine he may get his debut in a jamODI or T20
The Hutt Rec
International Vice-Captain
Oops.
Athlai
Not Terrible
You son of a bitch, hes in my domestic selector team as well FFS
jcas0167
International Regular
Other bowling contenders would be Hamish Bennett, Ben Wheeler, Bracewell might have played more tests, Kuggeleijn and maybe Van Beek?
straw man
Hall of Fame Member
Agree mostly and reviewing the dates, there were two distinct bad bowling attack periods, while through the middle around 2008 trickling into 2010 or 11 yes we had a reasonably stable attack centred around Martin, O'Brien and later Gillespie - this would've been passable enough to see off current domestic bowlers other than the four named above. But there was space for someone else at the end of that period around 2010-2011 when Arnel and Gillespie and very young Boult came in and similarly, there was ICL time around 2006-2008 where Mills played several, we desperately hoped 19 yr old Southee would work out and O'Brien was first picked - a time when we relied on Martin and Oram dots and had no cutting edge whatsoever.
In both the case of O'Brien and later Gillespie we were lucky they outperformed what might've been expected from domestic record, because we really had very very little else.
I think most of these above would've been thrown into a debut or a handful more test matches in the two periods above. Not saying they would've necessary been successful, they just would've been given a run. Someone like recent Bennett around the time of Arnel or Mills. Rance or Wheeler for swing bowling in place of injured Franklin and/or tour to England, Kuggeleijn or even Milne just because they bowl fast. Van Beek on the back of a single well-timed good season.
Cleaver seems very likely, though admittedly every domestic WK in the country including Young and Van Wyk were averaging 50 per season engine rooming in those years so they also looked like they had plenty to recommend their batting. Blundell and Seifert would also have fitted in around that time before Watling made the WK spot his.
If Will Young could bat at 3 like he does now then definitely would've had a gig pre Williamson. Every opener in the country would've had a run too.. .so nothing's changed there.
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NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Remember when Mills kinda won us a match vs England and never played again (IIRC)?
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Already proving myself wrong, he played against India in 2009.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Well it didn't help that he couldn't even get a game for CD in the 6 or 7 years that followed the 07/08 season.
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straw man
Hall of Fame Member
Flynn was worth a go at the time imo, though Nicols and Jarshall were indeed bad bad. But then iirc Hay's only opened since returning after the absence Bahnz posted - he was middle order for a while.
For the most part Hay's just been a little unfortunate that his good patches have come in a certain position at a certain time when there wasn't an obvious NZ vacancy. A bit like most of Broom's career, or when Brownlie tried to reinvent himself as an opener. And in all cases, probably wouldn't have stuck anyway.
Flem274*
123/5
he's better than redmond, nicol, fulton and rutherford imo if you want more modern examples. it was fair to give latham and raval goes before him. unless rachin announces he's ready early this season then hay is next in line.
he should have been on the plane to england in 2008. it's an absolute disgrace we dicked about with a sub shield standard cricketer like james marshall at #3, and daniel flynn got 20 tests of scoring 20-40 with no ability to drive.
that was just stupid as well. i don't even remember a form slump, he just disappeared.
he should have been on the plane to england in 2008. it's an absolute disgrace we dicked about with a sub shield standard cricketer like james marshall at #3, and daniel flynn got 20 tests of scoring 20-40 with no ability to drive.
The Hutt Rec
International Vice-Captain
Yes and achieved the impressive feat of having a slower career strikerate than Mark Richardson.
IIRC the press were writing it up as a J Marshall / Flynn / Hay battle for 2 middle order slots, and can't recall it being a shock that Hay wasn't picked. Checking FC stats they all had a similar season, J Marshall 616 runs @ 51, Flynn 663 @ 60, Hay 591 @ 53. Perhaps Marshall fielding and experience (29 years old vs 23 and 23) and Flynn left-handedness appealed to the selectors.
Not sure what happened to Hay, disappeared after a crappy 2008-09 (1 x 100 and a string of low scores). Did he stay in UK for a few years?
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, it was a coin flip between Hay and Flynn in the end, and you can't say on those numbers that it was a terrible decision to go for Flynn. I remember there were concerns at the time that Hay was a bit limited square of the wicket (or maybe it was the other way around - limited in his ability to play straight?). Either way, he clearly had some exploitable weaknesses given he averaged 25 the next season, got dropped and disappeared off the face of the planet for 6 years. With that being the case, it's hard to argue that he would've had much more success at the international level than Flynn did.
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