The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Athlai]

SA ODI allrounders better than Lance Klusener

Kallis
Pollock
Hansie

 

[Chrish]

Klusener is definitely among the best ODI cricketers I have seen.. Even if his bowling didn't exist, he was ATG material as a batsman alone!

 

[TheJediBrah]

Everyone forgets how handy a bowler Hansie was. Remarkable average for a part-timer, didn't average more than low 30s in any format.

Averaged under 30 in test cricket! Andrew Flintoff averaged nearly 32.

 

[jimmy101]

Yeah but Flintoff bowled a hell of a lot more than Hansie.

 

[mr_mister]

Hansie was apparently embarrassed when he got a wicket, that's how much he didn't rate his own bowling ability

But respectable figures no doubt

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah but Flintoff bowled a hell of a lot more than Hansie.

I'm not claiming he's a better bowler in any way, just pointing out his surprisingly low average. It's only a couple off runs of Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Broad's. Better than Brett Lee's.

 

[bagapath]

Hansie was apparently embarrassed when he got a wicket

understandable since that could be in conflict with some business commitments he might have made outside of the ground

 

[stephen]

Stephen. Smith's series vs India and England England donot compare to Lara 99. Lara faced Gillespie, warne, mcgrath and macgill. In this series, Smith's dominated a Anderson-less England. Still a very good attack but no where near great. In india yeah jadeja and ashwin are monsters at home but Smith doesn't have a 153* in the 4th innings shepherding rubbish batsmen like lara did. Or a 213 where his team was 37/4. Etc. Again, Smith now and in India, is more akin to Lara SL '01

Maybe.

The thing is that Smith having both series' under his belt is worth a whole lot more than one or the other because they tested so many different facets of his game. He's faced quality spinners in home conditions which spun and quality quicks in conditions which seamed and swung.

McWarne is a great attack and I'm not taking anything away from Lara in 99 but I do believe Smith's series' are on a par. They're Australia's two biggest tours in away conditions which are very different from his home against bowlers who thrive in those conditions. Smith has largely had garbage support in these series as well.

You might be valuing Lara's series more because you're a supporter and that's entirely fair, I probably would too if I was a fan of the West Indies. And I might be over rating Smith's series'. But there can't be much between them.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Lara in 1999 is probably the greatest series any batsman has had in history. Smith's ruthlessness this series has been astonishing but I wouldn't say this England attack have bowled anywhere near as well as what they're capable of.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Maybe.

The thing is that Smith having both series' under his belt is worth a whole lot more than one or the other because they tested so many different facets of his game. He's faced quality spinners in home conditions which spun and quality quicks in conditions which seamed and swung.

McWarne is a great attack and I'm not taking anything away from Lara in 99 but I do believe Smith's series' are on a par. They're Australia's two biggest tours in away conditions which are very different from his home against bowlers who thrive in those conditions. Smith has largely had garbage support in these series as well.

You might be valuing Lara's series more because you're a supporter and that's entirely fair, I probably would too if I was a fan of the West Indies. And I might be over rating Smith's series'. But there can't be much between them.

Excellent points from stephen

 

[harsh.ag]

You all would be singing a different tune had Healy not dropped Lara with 7-8 runs yet to get in that 153*

 

[mr_mister]

The cool thing about Lara's three knocks that series was the variety

Career saving double ton
The Stokes/Perera style ATG one man effort 153*
Then a ridiculous shot filled rapid ton, he came in at 2-20 and departed at 3-136, but scored a century in that 116 run partnership lol

 

[OverratedSanity]

The double had an incredible change of gears too. He got to his 50 off almost 150 balls since they were rebuilding after bring ****all for 4. Accelerated like only he can after that.

 

[Slifer]

You all would be singing a different tune had Healy not dropped Lara with 7-8 runs yet to get in that 153*

That happens to everyone. Didnt Smith get dropped like a million times in India?? And he was out in the last test from a no ball...

 

[Slifer]

Maybe.

The thing is that Smith having both series' under his belt is worth a whole lot more than one or the other because they tested so many different facets of his game. He's faced quality spinners in home conditions which spun and quality quicks in conditions which seamed and swung.

McWarne is a great attack and I'm not taking anything away from Lara in 99 but I do believe Smith's series' are on a par. They're Australia's two biggest tours in away conditions which are very different from his home against bowlers who thrive in those conditions. Smith has largely had garbage support in these series as well.

You might be valuing Lara's series more because you're a supporter and that's entirely fair, I probably would too if I was a fan of the West Indies. And I might be over rating Smith's series'. But there can't be much between them.

I'm not the only person who thinks Lara 99 was one of the greatest series since slice bread. Nothing Smith has done in this series is unprecedented. Lara did similar away to SL in '01 vs Vaas and Murali and against England in '95 . And Smith has scored runs in this series vs 0.0 established atgs. In India he faced an attack that's great at home. Lara came off a 5-0 drubbing and had to face not only an atg oz attack but an atg team and a great fielding team; no margin for error. You're at Australian, you're seriously telling me this England team or attack remotely compares to the oz team/attack of 99??

 

[mr_mister]

The '99 series was terrific but Smith looks like he might pass Lara's 34 test hundreds about 30 tests quicker than him atm

 

[Slifer]

Not just lara, he passed viv, wally hammond and a whole slew of atg in quick time. I hope people arent confused. Smith imo is already an atg. And in this series he's in G mode that I've only ever seen from lara SL '01 or 99. I just think Lara's effort in 99 was superior because he was facing are far superior team and attack and he was under enormous pressure being captain and after the rsa debacle.

 

[Slifer]

The '99 series was terrific but Smith looks like he might pass Lara's 34 test hundreds about 30 tests quicker than him atm

Or he could nose dive . I'm leaning towards smith remaining consistently dominant though. Would be interesting to see him in rsa again sometime soon

 

[h_hurricane]

Not sure if it had been done before.

1 from each country eleven. Sorry Ireland.

Jack Hobbs
Sunil Gavaskar
Don Bradman
Kumar Sangakkara
Garry Sobers
Andy Flower
Shakib Al Hasan
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Rashid Khan
Dale Steyn

 

[TheJediBrah]

Not sure if it had been done before.

1 from each country eleven. Sorry Ireland.

Jack Hobbs
Sunil Gavaskar
Don Bradman
Kumar Sangakkara
Garry Sobers
Andy Flower
Shakib Al Hasan
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Rashid Khan
Dale Steyn

Good one. I'd move Flower up and Sangakkara down assuming he's going to be keeping