3rd Test at Headingley, Leeds

[stephen]

Wait whaaaat? No. The potential best Aussie quick of this generation this time ~6-8 years ago was pretty universally seen as one of Pattinson, Hazlewood or Starc.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/58813-australia-s-fast-bowling-problem.html

Started in 2012 and there were a large number of posts saying that Bird was destined to be one of our first picked.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

When you consider pecking orders Reiffel and Fleming seem closer to Pattinson and Siddle than anything else, though.

Would have both ahead of current day Siddle but certainly not Patto

 

[TheJediBrah]

McGrath wasn't fast at all for the best part of his career. But comparing him to Anderson in methodology in the context of playing in Australia just because they're both not very fast is silly.

I may be wrong with Jimmy, but from what I saw both of them were much better bowlers when they slowed down

 

[greg]

Back in the day when Test cricket was still on the BBC, whenever there was a bowling change they used to put up a brief caption describing the bowling “style” (for want of a better word).

One thing that could be guaranteed from this was that an English bowler would never, ever, be described as anything quicker than ‘Fast medium’, even consistently high 80s mph*. I think even Devon might have failed to break through! Whereas a West Indian could lollop in off six paces bowling 80mph outswingers and they would still always meet the threshold for “Fast”. As opening bowler for a foreign side i’m sure McGrath’s status as “Fast” was assured...

*One particular memory was when McCague was drafted in in 1993(?) as the great new Fast bowling hope who was going to stick it to the Aussies. BBC: “Pavilion end - M McCague - “Fast-Medium”

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

I remember an old neighbor of mine calling all English bowlers who were not spinners 'seamers'.

I thought it was a thing unique to English players.

 

[Starfighter]

Back in the day when Test cricket was still on the BBC, whenever there was a bowling change they used to put up a brief caption describing the bowling “style” (for want of a better word).

One thing that could be guaranteed from this was that an English bowler would never, ever, be described as anything quicker than ‘Fast medium’, even consistently high 80s mph*. I think even Devon might have failed to break through! Whereas a West Indian could lollop in off six paces bowling 80mph outswingers and they would still always meet the threshold for “Fast”. As opening bowler for a foreign side i’m sure McGrath’s status as “Fast” was assured...

*One particular memory was when McCague was drafted in in 1993(?) as the great new Fast bowling hope who was going to stick it to the Aussies. BBC: “Pavilion end - M McCague - “Fast-Medium”

That's not strictly true. They demoted Malcolm Marshall to fast-medium at some point in the 1991 series, which was probably a fair enough call.

 

[greg]

Unique Categories of English bowlers:

Slow left arm
Flat off spinner
Old fashioned seamer
Traditional swing bowler

 

[Burgey]

I think this 'McGrath was genuinely fast until they brought speedguns in' thing is like the 'McGrath was a swing bowler' thing I've seen on here before.

I don't think anyone is saying he hit 90mph consistently, but he was as sharp in the first part of his career as someone like Cummins is now, who seems to operate mid-high 80s these days.

 

[GIMH]

Tbf to him, Bird was greeting talked up around 8 years ago as potentially being the best Aussie quick of this generation. Not just by me, but by many on here.

Now Bird isn't that good but he's genuinely got the shaft being sent home while we play Siddle. He'd do Siddle's job while actually taking wickets.

Hilfenhaus was genuinely good for a while there. Anderson wouldn't have had a much better career for Australia were he born here. 135 kph swing bowlers don't get long international careers in Australia.

You are amazing

 

[Daemon]

Harris is gone, he'll never play tests again. Siddle, Pattinson, and then whoever is fit, out of Starc, Bird, Cummins. All of them will NEVER be fit at the same time, ever.

Took 7 years but they got there

 

[Burgey]

You are amazing

It's true. If Anderson were Australian he'd be about 18th in line to get a game, except in England or the WACA. He's the Pommy Terry Alderman. Alderman, by virtue of being Australian is of course better, and a much better bloke too. Then again, the unnamed brother who's rumored to have helped Ivan Milat is a better bloke than Anderson.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Yep

Anderson bowled very quickly on his first tour to Australia

He, McDermott, Hadlee etc started their careers as tear away fast bowlers and ended up very different but still sharp

They were never Philanders

Pollock too.

 

[Ulzan69]

My 2 Favorite Aus players were
N.Harvey and G.Chappell but I add Smith as my 3rd best player

924 runs in his last 6 test vs eng
Wow.Don scored 974 in 1930 series -- still world record in Aggregates of runs

I wish Smith play at Leeds on wed

 

[Ulzan69]

378 in 3 Innings by Smith so far

 

[stephen]

You are amazing

How would Anderson's career have gone if he was Australian.

He'd have gotten a run some time after McGrath retired, probably around 2010. He would have done ok but been dropped for the exciting (and faster) talents coming through - Pattinson, Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood etc... He would have been a solid domestic performer but would have been fighting faster bowlers for a spot.

Even if he was a regular instead of say Hilfenhaus from 2010-2012, he would have been pushed out by Harris, Johnson and Siddle as they became fit/good. Lehmann would have taken over the team at some point and dropped him for being too slow.

Over the last few years he'd have gotten a few games here and there, much like Bird but would have likely gotten most of his games on flat MCG wickets or in Asian dust bowls.

He likely would have been dug up for this Ashes tour and have been fighting Siddle for a place but sent home because Siddle is a management favourite.

He'd have ended up retiring with 150-200 wickets at 28-30 and nobody would think of him much again.

Thankfully he's got to play for England who gave him a massive run when he was rubbish and had repaid the favour from about 2010 on, particularity in home conditions but overseas as well for the last 5 years or so.

See the Australian selection policies churn through fast bowlers very quickly. Australia doesn't really give bowlers long periods in the side while being rubbish unless they're tearaways (ala Brett Lee).

 

[StephenZA]

I know. I was citing him as an example of what is wrong with modern Sheffield Shield cricket. We really don't need that type of bowler around

Just as an fyi this is was also the generally held opinion surrounding Philander, and even after taking buckets of wickets at FC level was still not considered international quality by many, eventually he could no longer be ignored. And was finally picked because he could bat as well. Philander may have never made the team if he was not a decent no 7/8.

 

[Burgey]

stephen making a lot of sense here. Fair and balanced.

 

[GIMH]

How would Anderson's career have gone if he was Australian.

He'd have gotten a run some time after McGrath retired, probably around 2010. He would have done ok but been dropped for the exciting (and faster) talents coming through - Pattinson, Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood etc... He would have been a solid domestic performer but would have been fighting faster bowlers for a spot.

Even if he was a regular instead of say Hilfenhaus from 2010-2012, he would have been pushed out by Harris, Johnson and Siddle as they became fit/good. Lehmann would have taken over the team at some point and dropped him for being too slow.

Over the last few years he'd have gotten a few games here and there, much like Bird but would have likely gotten most of his games on flat MCG wickets or in Asian dust bowls.

He likely would have been dug up for this Ashes tour and have been fighting Siddle for a place but sent home because Siddle is a management favourite.

He'd have ended up retiring with 150-200 wickets at 28-30 and nobody would think of him much again.

Thankfully he's got to play for England who gave him a massive run when he was rubbish and had repaid the favour from about 2010 on, particularity in home conditions but overseas as well for the last 5 years or so.

See the Australian selection policies churn through fast bowlers very quickly. Australia doesn't really give bowlers long periods in the side while being rubbish unless they're tearaways (ala Brett Lee).

Like I said. You are amazing

 

[Victor Ian]

Anderson in Australia would probably not be a swing bowler. After feeling his way for the first season or two he'd probably have become Australia's staple seam merchant.

 

[stephen]

Like I said. You are amazing

I know.