*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[Greenlite]

I'd start off working towards 2023 with a full-strength squad and a reserve squad in my mind, and basically work to get all 30 of those guys up to 10ish games in the cycle, minimum. Preferably including some high-pressure ones, not just JAMODIs.

To me the holy grail is getting to a point where, two months out from the WC or whatever you can name your squad of 30 probables and trust every one of them to play a role to a reasonable level, and that bottom 7 or 8 are guys you've planned to be depth options - and aren't just random form selections that haven't been tested.

Even if that's a case of having given McConchie or something 8 ODIs for a batting average of 28 at a SR of 82, and knowing he can solidify a collapse @ 5 if the entirety of the First XI fall over with gastro the night before or something. You don't need 30 superstars - but you need 30 guys that you can pick up and use to do something to a reasonably useful degree

I felt the bowling unit as a whole is better than 2015, they turned up big time in the knock out games, and basically carries the average batting unit. So hopefully we'll breed many good players and have strong depth in the bench. We don't need 30 superstars like you said, and I'm quite hopeful of the current management because the psychological side of things seem to be our strength this time, and that can enhance the performance of the whole team not just individuals, and this wins games and tournaments.

WC ratings?

KS Williamson - WAG. I feel he knows a game right down to the last note, as captain. I thought when Stokes and Buttler were in, he had got it all wrong, as they looked to be taking it away, but he kept calm. Freak deflections upset his plans a bit. Was clearly the standout batsman of the side and guided us through the tournament. 9.5/10
LRPL Taylor - the boss. Was steady and proved a vital knock in the semi, but feel like he should've contributed more as the senior player. Got sawn off in the final, so who knows what could've been. 7/10
JDS Neesham - what a comeback! Was really unsure how he'd go pre tournament but he proved everyone wrong. Contributed more with the ball which I was honestly surprised about. His 97 was gold. Nearly won us the super over. Only criticism was not enough explosive hitting when needed but the tournament was actually fairly slow in that regard. 9/10
C Munro - can we please discard him and let him be a T20 specialist? Though he actually averaged more than Guptill, I feel like his inability to be good affected our best ever ODI openers frame of mind, 3/10
MJ Santner - didn't really get pitches that helped, though contributed when he did. Bowled tight, didn't get a huge amount to do with the bat. 5/10
C de Grandhomme - gets 10/10 for his bowling in the final....but unfortunately overall, I felt he went missing when needed with the bat. 6/10 might be generous.
HM Nicholls - poor nips. Injured, still not at home in his new role, but vital 50 in the final. 5/10
MJ Guptill - 10/10 for that run out tbh. Otherwise a dissappointing tournament for someone who I thought would otherwise gun it. Didn't even really cash in against the minnows. It'd be 2/10 if it weren't for his fielding. 3/10.
TWM Latham - Kept well, finally turned up in the crunch match with the bat. After it seemed like he cracked it down the order, he seemed to be all at sea. Reckon he should go back to opening tbh. 2/10
TA Boult - Thought he'd be our bowler of the tournament, but didn't really eventuate. Nonetheless, 17 @ 28 is nothing to be sneezed at. 7/10
IS Sodhi - didn't get much of a chance. Got tonked by the Aussies, but so did Santner. Not a spinners tournament. 1/10
MJ Henry - his name is Henrrryyyyyyyy.Glad he proved the haters wrong. Wasn't flawless, but hopefully his spot shouldn't be under question. When he was good, he was MOTM winning good. When not, he was still fairly tight. 8/10
LH Ferguson - Find of the tournament you could say, though we already knew he was good. Can't wait to see what he goes on to do. 9/10
TG Southee - Yeah look, had we actually won the final I would've honestly said the pivotal moment was his safe hands catching as sub. As it stands, he had one chance and he was abysmal. Squad member is almost too good for him. 1/10

I thought CDG deserve another point for taking all the hits from Archer, but maybe take that point off because he scared the s*** out of Santa that he dodged the last ball and forgot to run the bye.

Thought CDG+Neesham as the double insurance team would deserve 9/10 as a whole, combined even if they both fail you still get 20+ runs with a reasonable bowling performance.

would have given Latham 6/10, based on catching all the chances in the knock out games and actually holding up in both games esp the final as well, when Ross was gone he basically did what Ross would have done, score 40 odd and get out.

Nips would have given him 7/10 as well, anchored it well in the semi with Kane and a 50 in the final will always be one's career highlight and shows his mental toughness, and learning from the non-review and making a great review was positive as well, otherwise would probably be downhill from there straight away.

I'm just really satisfied in a way that the support players came to the party in the crunch games and that's how you usually win these high pressure one off games, and to see their development come to fruitition is great

 

[jcas0167]

5/10 seems harsh for Santner. Batting at no. 8 he had a series of crucial contributions. Unbeaten 17 off 12 balls against Bangladesh was a clutch innings (NZ only won by 2 wickets), also his 10 off 5 balls against the Windies and an unbeaten 9 off 6 against India in the semi. He basically outbowled the Indian spinners in the semifinal. At one stage he was had 7 off his 6 overs and frustrated Pant and Pandya into slogging.

I'd probably give Nicholls an extra point too for a solid innings in the semifinal and crucial half century in the final. Coming into the side late in the tournament he came through under pressure.

 

[Bahnz]

I felt the bowling unit as a whole is better than 2015, they turned up big time in the knock out games, and basically carries the average batting unit. So hopefully we'll breed many good players and have strong depth in the bench. We don't need 30 superstars like you said, and I'm quite hopeful of the current management because the psychological side of things seem to be our strength this time, and that can enhance the performance of the whole team not just individuals, and this wins games and tournaments.

Yeah the bowling as a unit was definitely better, especially during the semi's and finals. By the end of 2015, Southee was bowling garbage, Milne was gone, Henry was out of position at first change and Vettori was practically on one leg. It was Boult or the bush. In 2019, Henry, Boult, Ferguson, Santner, Neesham and CdG all did fantastic jobs in their respective rolls. You just knew that the opposition weren't going to make big scores against that lineup. Was just the best all round bowling attack in the tournament.

I wanna hope that Southee being benched for essentially the entire tournament will help to light a fire under his arse, but given his showing in the final group game, I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[Greenlite]

Yeah the bowling as a unit was definitely better, especially during the semi's and finals. By the end of 2015, Southee was bowling garbage, Milne was gone, Henry was out of position at first change and Vettori was practically on one leg. It was Boult or the bush. In 2019, Henry, Boult, Ferguson, Santner, Neesham and CdG all did fantastic jobs in their respective rolls. You just knew that the opposition weren't going to make big scores against that lineup. Was just the best all round bowling attack in the tournament.

I wanna hope that Southee being benched for essentially the entire tournament will help to light a fire under his arse, but given his showing in the final group game, I wouldn't bet on it.

Lol tbf he had no game time and comes in against one of the best and desperate batting line up, and he was fine in the death. Though it's totally time for him to focus on tests now to prolong his career, and he could be the odi super sub for any garbage fielders in the side. Henry has come good now, Tim can be dropped, I mean pass on the mantle now.

For the bowling unit I think CDG was rubbish in the semi then it was Santa's turn to be not useful in the final, but we always had 6 bowlers and 5 were good on the day, huge difference, and Jimmy difintely out bowled Corey of 2015, I just hope they keep him fit and focused, he might become our bald Harris 2.0. Maybe get him to do some baking in that yummy French high tea restaurant in town in WEL for a couple of years to preserve him for a big run towards India 2023.

I reckon we had a half chance vs as in the final if Vettori didn't bust his Achilles celebrating in the first over, he was the only one who could run through their middle order.

 

[Flem274*]

2020/21 summer is a horror show. 5 tests and ten million t20s. its right before the test championship final too so clearly david white doesn't expect us to be there.

also i think we should be good ****s and play ireland in a test when we go there along with the 3 odis. we moan when teams avoid us, so we should reach out to other unwanted sides. 1 extra test isn't going to kill us. people who don't think it will be a contest don't have to watch it.

 

[jcas0167]

Baz announces on Instagram he will be joining the Sky comm box for the home summer. Great burn by Neesham in the comments.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

2020/21 summer is a horror show. 5 tests and ten million t20s. its right before the test championship final too so clearly david white doesn't expect us to be there.

also i think we should be good ****s and play ireland in a test when we go there along with the 3 odis. we moan when teams avoid us, so we should reach out to other unwanted sides. 1 extra test isn't going to kill us. people who don't think it will be a contest don't have to watch it.

Usually I go to all international matches in Wellington, but I genuinely don't think I can bring myself to drag myself along to any more t20s. I wonder if crowds will start to lose interest in them. Might just be super smash for me next summer!

Baz announces on Instagram he will be joining the Sky comm box for the home summer. Great burn by Neesham in the comments.

View attachment 24814

Lol Neesham's hate for Baz is officially a thing (accruate or not).

 

[Jezroy]

2020/21 summer is a horror show. 5 tests and ten million t20s. its right before the test championship final too so clearly david white doesn't expect us to be there.

also i think we should be good ****s and play ireland in a test when we go there along with the 3 odis. we moan when teams avoid us, so we should reach out to other unwanted sides. 1 extra test isn't going to kill us. people who don't think it will be a contest don't have to watch it.

Agreed on both counts. Play a test in Ireland. If it’s too costly to send test specialists over for a one off, just use the players that are already there. Guptill can make a test ton (probably not). Or actually, maybe Young will be in the squad by then.

Nicholls can open ala stop gap ODI
Latham
Kane
Young
Blundell
CDG
Neesh
Santner
Southee (still to be stinking up the ODI squad)
Ferguson
Boult

And for this that CBF looking at the FTP for 2020/21

2 test away to Bangladesh prior to our home summer
3 home T20s vs Bang
3 home T20s vs WI
World T20 in Australia
3 home tests vs WI
2 home tests and 3 T20 vs Pak
3 away ODI vs Aus
SL visit for 3 ODIs and 3 T20s
BAN come back for 3 ODIs and 3 more T20s...
Australia visit for 3 ODIs

What is the actual point of some of this? Can see the 6 T20s leading up to the World T20 making sense.

But the SL and Bangladesh visits after that...? So random.

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, it's a bizarre schedule, especially the 2 Bangladesh T20 tours in the space of 3 months. I also know the public loves watching us play Australia, but 2 ODI series in the same season on top of the World T20 in Aus is daft af.

 

[Jezroy]

Yeah, it's a bizarre schedule, especially the 2 Bangladesh T20 tours in the space of 3 months. I also know the public loves watching us play Australia, but 2 ODI series in the same season on top of the World T20 in Aus is daft af.

But we could finish the season off by holding onto the very important Chappel Hadlee trophy?

 

[thundaboult]

Would love to see a bunch of tours planned for us to play in the UAE, SL, Bdesh and India post the t20 in australia next year...with a clear focus on the t20 wc/odi wc in 2021 and 2023. Should Play majority of our games there.

 

[Hicheal Michael]

Against my better judgement i re-watched the last 30 minutes of the final.

Using Boult and Guptil in the super over just seems so strange looking back. Boult looked tired towards the end of the 50 overs and was probably lucky Stokes was as well otherwise those leg stump full tosses would have been put in the stands. Sending Guptil out actually made sense to me at the time, though you hope serious thought was given to sending out Williamson or Taylor.

Oh well, it was a good run.

 

[thundaboult]

Against my better judgement i re-watched the last 30 minutes of the final.

Using Boult and Guptil in the super over just seems so strange looking back. Boult looked tired towards the end of the 50 overs and was probably lucky Stokes was as well otherwise those leg stump full tosses would have been put in the stands. Sending Guptil out actually made sense to me at the time, though you hope serious thought was given to sending out Williamson or Taylor.

Oh well, it was a good run.

Funny you say that...just mustered up enough guts to watch those final moments again. Wish I hadn't. A nightmare that will live forever.

Should have used Lockie. Should have used KW instead of Gup. So many coulda woulda shoulda's. In the end, we still didn't lose. But we still didn't hold the trophy. No one will ever come this close to not getting to hold up that Cup. Did everything humanly possible against all odds. My greatest fear is...will we even make the finals of a tournament like this for years to come....we've come THIS close and still been denied. Will our boys win a WC within our lifetime...that's my fear. I really hope this is not our ceiling.

 

[jcas0167]

Funny you say that...just mustered up enough guts to watch those final moments again. Wish I hadn't. A nightmare that will live forever.

Should have used Lockie. Should have used KW instead of Gup. So many coulda woulda shoulda's. In the end, we still didn't lose. But we still didn't hold the trophy. No one will ever come this close to not getting to hold up that Cup. Did everything humanly possible against all odds. My greatest fear is...will we even make the finals of a tournament like this for years to come....we've come THIS close and still been denied. Will our boys win a WC within our lifetime...that's my fear. I really hope this is not our ceiling.

I hadn't really thought about it, but the arbitrary nature of separating the teams was unfair on the winners too.

In an extension of the good spirit in which the game was played, Morgan, 32, and his New Zealand opposite number, Kane Williamson, have been in constant contact as they try to comprehend what happened in a match that was decided by the finest of margins on the final ball of the “extra time” Super Over.

“I’m not sure winning it makes it any easier,” says Morgan as he sits in a lounge at Lord’s. He is friendly and chatty and on the way into the famous pavilion has exchanged hugs and warm words with members of staff he has known for years. But this thoughtful, self-effacing captain is clearly physically shattered and mentally burdened by the enormity of what he has achieved and how the match was won.

“I don’t think it’s fair to have a result like that when there’s very little between the sides. I don’t think there was one moment that you could say: ‘That actually cost the game there.’ It was quite balanced.

“I’m black and white. I’m normally going: ‘I know. I was there, that happened.’ [But] I can’t stick my finger on where the game was won and lost.”

Is he troubled by the fact that he won? “A little bit, because there’s no defining moment that you’d say: ‘Yes, we thoroughly deserved it.’ It’s just been crazy.” Only at the end of the conversation does he concede: “It would be more difficult to lose, of course.”

Dealing with the aftermath has “been quite mixed really. I spoke to Kane over the last couple of days on numerous occasions and none of us has come up with a rational explanation as to the various times we gave them the game and they gave it back to us. Like me, he can’t get his head around everything.”

 

[TheBrand]

If anyone is interested Part I of our World Cup review podcast is up:

https://insidetheboxcricket.podbean.com/e/episode-7-world-cup-review-part-i/

 

[vandem]

Interesting comments from Morgan. I suspect for the next generation the England world cup winning team will be defined by a footnote (* lucky deflection / umpiring mistake / unusual tie-breaker rules) instead of being remembered as a dominant ODI team who went into the WC as favourites and won it.

A little like Trevor Chappell, for a generation he wasn't remembered for being a useful all rounder who once bowled a tight over to win a ODI at the MCG.

 

[Kippax]

Yeah, it's a bizarre schedule, especially the 2 Bangladesh T20 tours in the space of 3 months.

If a cash-strapped NZC can't get India A elevated for full tours to tide them over in the lean years, they're keeping an eye on Bangladesh, alright.

Anger as financially strapped New Zealand Cricket heads domestic game towards massive overhaul

At a stormy meeting, New Zealand Cricket (NZC) has asked its six associated districts to look at deep financial cuts and far-reaching structural changes.

Soon to return three consecutive years of heavy losses, NZC and its associations are in a deep financial hole, though chairman Greg Barclay said on Wednesday they were a long way from bankruptcy, with $17.5 million of equity.

NZC is looking at various options, such as splitting the country into two conferences to reduce travel expenses, playing on smaller grounds, shortening the Plunket Shield season, cutting paid staff in its associations and playing more limited over cricket.

They're of a mind to get those babies completely hooked on the sweet New Zealand infant formula, with all the speedy bowlers, chancy batters, the slightly naive and cherubic lead commentator Ian Smith. It's all very promising.

 

[jcas0167]

If a cash-strapped NZC can't get India A elevated for full tours to tide them over in the lean years, they're keeping an eye on Bangladesh, alright.

Anger as financially strapped New Zealand Cricket heads domestic game towards massive overhaul



They're of a mind to get those babies completely hooked on the sweet New Zealand infant formula, with all the speedy bowlers, chancy batters, the slightly naive and cherubic lead commentator Ian Smith. It's all very promising.

NZC will have received a nice US$2 million boost thanks to the Black Caps making the final.

 

[Kippax]

Yes the $4m for going one better than that is definitely something a sheepish England could share isn't it. This inter-conference game of the Andrew Strauss Shield is brought to you by your patron, the England and Wales Cricket Board.

 

[Greenlite]

Against my better judgement i re-watched the last 30 minutes of the final.

Using Boult and Guptil in the super over just seems so strange looking back. Boult looked tired towards the end of the 50 overs and was probably lucky Stokes was as well otherwise those leg stump full tosses would have been put in the stands. Sending Guptil out actually made sense to me at the time, though you hope serious thought was given to sending out Williamson or Taylor.

Oh well, it was a good run.

Ross would probably have run Neesh out first ball on a wide though =P

My wife kept on saying they shouldn't have sent Boult, she's pretty superstituous lol and she thought he was having one of the s***iest games of his career - deflection, foot on the rope, wicketless etc

I explained how kiwis like this "have faith for the senior out of form players" and Boult's the senior man taking responsibility.....like David Beckem being a man and taking first shot in the penalty shoot out in match vs France in Euro 2000 and kicking the ball into the stand =P

Kane makes a lot of sense now he probably would have moved in front of the stumps and knocked it for 2, 4, or 6...Archer probably would have bowled a wide down leg side to tie the game....they probably didn't expect Neesh to kill it the first few balls though....still gutted he couldn't put one away in the last 3 deliveries he faced....