*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[Andy1993]

Don't see Guptill being at the next world cup

 

[Jezroy]

Is everyone writing off Guptill for 2023? He'll be 36 and there's not too many ODI's really until the 18 months before that, and given he doesn't play tests now, I'm sure that could be his swansong.

Not many ODIs... but he'll be darn busy opening in the T20s! #somany

 

[thundaboult]

Very early and rough guess for 2023

1. Rachin Ravindra
2. Martin Guptill
3. Kane Williamson
4. Will Young
5. Henry Nicholls
6. Josh Clarkson
7. Tim Seifert
8. Mitchell Santner
9. Scott Kuggeleijn
10. Lockie Ferguson
11. Trent Boult

Rachin’s development will be the key, I think he should be taken on every NZ SC tour starting with the Sri Lankan tour in a few months.

That looks a powerful squad on paper. Spin, pace, hitters, accumulators. Keeping looks light but who knows where Seifert will be in 4 years. Batting all the way down to kuggs is also impressive. Spin department could use some Sodhi magic, I feel he will really come good in 4 years. Fingers crossed for Guptill...hoping someone like a Finn Allen can grow into his spot.

 

[jcas0167]

I would expect Glenn Phillips to be a major force by then too. He's still only 22 and has been top run scorer in the Super Smash and hit a century in last seasons CPL final. A rare talent.

 

[Bahnz]

Btw, I raised an eyebrow 18 months ago when I found out about it, but how fantastic is it that England are coming down for another tour in November? Literally couldn't have a better way of building on the excitement of the final than having the poms over here and crushing them.

 

[TheBrand]

Btw, I raised an eyebrow 18 months ago when I found out about it, but how fantastic is it that England are coming down for another tour in November? Literally couldn't have a better way of building on the excitement of the final than having the poms over here and crushing them.

No ODI's though?

 

[The Hutt Rec]

No ODI's though?

No ODIs against them until the next World Cup at the earliest.

 

[Greenlite]

Btw, I raised an eyebrow 18 months ago when I found out about it, but how fantastic is it that England are coming down for another tour in November? Literally couldn't have a better way of building on the excitement of the final than having the poms over here and crushing them.

I heard the ENG d***head director ordered 7 Super over games just to rub our faces for fun

#superoveristhefuture

 

[Moss]

I would expect Glenn Phillips to be a major force by then too. He's still only 22 and has been top run scorer in the Super Smash and hit a century in last seasons CPL final. A rare talent.

He strikes me as the kind of guy who finds the step up to internationals difficult, didn't feel the same about Seifert and even Blundell for example. Probably needs more exposure at the top level to settle in and do justice to his undoubted ball striking ability (was a similar case with Mccullum in 2002/03), but with Seifert having sort of leapfrogged him don't know if the selectors are prepared to give him a long rope.

Also, is Mark Chapman out of the frame completely? Did play one t20 in the UAE last season and didn't feature again IIRC.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Chapman should just do the decent thing and go back to Hong Kong tbh

Sam Hain too for that matter

 

[The Hutt Rec]

He strikes me as the kind of guy who finds the step up to internationals difficult, didn't feel the same about Seifert and even Blundell for example. Probably needs more exposure at the top level to settle in and do justice to his undoubted ball striking ability (was a similar case with Mccullum in 2002/03), but with Seifert having sort of leapfrogged him don't know if the selectors are prepared to give him a long rope.

Also, is Mark Chapman out of the frame completely? Did play one t20 in the UAE last season and didn't feature again IIRC.

Totally forgot about Chapman ... the cricketweb great hope of 2017/18.

Didn’t have the best season last year, did he?

 

[thundaboult]

Just realized that there we have two t20 world cups in two consecutive years. The one next year is in Australia. This one should be tasty, I am gonna go full on pace and fire for this one.

My T20 probables for Aus next year

Munro
Guptill
Seifert
Kane
G Phillips
CLarkson
Neesh
Kuggs
Milne
Lockie
Boult

Sodhi, Santner, Corey Anderson, Tickner for injury cover.

 

[Greenlite]

Just realized that there we have two t20 world cups in two consecutive years. The one next year is in Australia. This one should be tasty, I am gonna go full on pace and fire for this one.

My T20 probables for Aus next year

Munro
Guptill
Seifert
Kane
G Phillips
CLarkson
Neesh
Kuggs
Milne
Lockie
Boult

Sodhi, Santner, Corey Anderson, Tickner for injury cover.

lol some serious pace there, Kane as the No.1 spinner and Munro as the No.1 medium pacer

 

[Greenlite]

My current team for 2023

Ravindra/Young/Seifert/Guppy/Philips
Kane
Latham
Nips
Neesh
Corey/Kuggs
Santa/Ish
Henry/Tickner
Boult
Fergey/Milne

The key would be maintaining good strategics pacing of form from 2019 wc and maintaining current players mental and physical health, and point of difference would be forcing Corey to be fit and in form, fit enough to only needing to bowl 2-4 overs if Neesh etc can't pick up partnership breakers, and only smashing in the last 5-10 overs to close games, and some other Southee/Guppy junior can field for him most of the time.

I think it's possible to have No.3-7 all in their late 20s/early 30s within their prime and having 7-10 years+ experiences, and can all play spin well, and a bunch of talents fight it out for the 2 opening positions so we can set plateforms like we're doing around 2015, and if someone playing well but misses out they can back up the middle order or the closer as Corey's still a big risk....but you will not have a player with 5+ years of experience to close games for you.

IMO NZ needs to work on chasing under pressure as well, seems the bowlers/fielders are holding their nerves better (or same players but not transferring that mental game into batting)

Now looking back it's kinda amazing how Hesson didn't shop around and develop a bunch of openers after 2015, seems to be Munro/Guppy and that's it

 

[Moss]

My current team for 2023

Now looking back it's kinda amazing how Hesson didn't shop around and develop a bunch of openers after 2015, seems to be Munro/Guppy and that's it

Latham held the opening gig as McCullum's replacement for a couple of years and looked good for it, until he had a bad trot against South Africa in early 2017 and Hesson decided he'd be better utilised in the middle order. A couple of others who were trialled included Brownlie (couldn't capitalize) and Worker (just about okay, think Nicholls is a better bet TBH). Not sure where we go from here, hope someone like Ravindra takes to international cricket quickly.

 

[Greenlite]

Latham held the opening gig as McCullum's replacement for a couple of years and looked good for it, until he had a bad trot against South Africa in early 2017 and Hesson decided he'd be better utilised in the middle order. A couple of others who were trialled included Brownlie (couldn't capitalize) and Worker (just about okay, think Nicholls is a better bet TBH). Not sure where we go from here, hope someone like Ravindra takes to international cricket quickly.

Must have been 2015/16 Baz had his farewell tour, then if it's 16/17 then Latham must have taken over for a few months with the gloves then failed so bad he was gone for the end of the series. Then they moved him to 5 in the CT and him, Neesh and Corey all sucked then haha, we kept on getting 150-1 after 30 then Kane and Ross get out and we end up with 190 all out.

I thought the beard was solid and Worker was ok and his last innings in PAK was fine, neither coaches persisted with them which is a shame, I can't remember what Munro was doing all these years lol, can only remember all the T20s

 

[Dan]

I'd start off working towards 2023 with a full-strength squad and a reserve squad in my mind, and basically work to get all 30 of those guys up to 10ish games in the cycle, minimum. Preferably including some high-pressure ones, not just JAMODIs.

To me the holy grail is getting to a point where, two months out from the WC or whatever you can name your squad of 30 probables and trust every one of them to play a role to a reasonable level, and that bottom 7 or 8 are guys you've planned to be depth options - and aren't just random form selections that haven't been tested.

Even if that's a case of having given McConchie or something 8 ODIs for a batting average of 28 at a SR of 82, and knowing he can solidify a collapse @ 5 if the entirety of the First XI fall over with gastro the night before or something. You don't need 30 superstars - but you need 30 guys that you can pick up and use to do something to a reasonably useful degree

 

[NZTailender]

WC ratings?

KS Williamson - WAG. I feel he knows a game right down to the last note, as captain. I thought when Stokes and Buttler were in, he had got it all wrong, as they looked to be taking it away, but he kept calm. Freak deflections upset his plans a bit. Was clearly the standout batsman of the side and guided us through the tournament. 9.5/10
LRPL Taylor - the boss. Was steady and proved a vital knock in the semi, but feel like he should've contributed more as the senior player. Got sawn off in the final, so who knows what could've been. 7/10
JDS Neesham - what a comeback! Was really unsure how he'd go pre tournament but he proved everyone wrong. Contributed more with the ball which I was honestly surprised about. His 97 was gold. Nearly won us the super over. Only criticism was not enough explosive hitting when needed but the tournament was actually fairly slow in that regard. 9/10
C Munro - can we please discard him and let him be a T20 specialist? Though he actually averaged more than Guptill, I feel like his inability to be good affected our best ever ODI openers frame of mind, 3/10
MJ Santner - didn't really get pitches that helped, though contributed when he did. Bowled tight, didn't get a huge amount to do with the bat. 5/10
C de Grandhomme - gets 10/10 for his bowling in the final....but unfortunately overall, I felt he went missing when needed with the bat. 6/10 might be generous.
HM Nicholls - poor nips. Injured, still not at home in his new role, but vital 50 in the final. 5/10
MJ Guptill - 10/10 for that run out tbh. Otherwise a dissappointing tournament for someone who I thought would otherwise gun it. Didn't even really cash in against the minnows. It'd be 2/10 if it weren't for his fielding. 3/10.
TWM Latham - Kept well, finally turned up in the crunch match with the bat. After it seemed like he cracked it down the order, he seemed to be all at sea. Reckon he should go back to opening tbh. 2/10
TA Boult - Thought he'd be our bowler of the tournament, but didn't really eventuate. Nonetheless, 17 @ 28 is nothing to be sneezed at. 7/10
IS Sodhi - didn't get much of a chance. Got tonked by the Aussies, but so did Santner. Not a spinners tournament. 1/10
MJ Henry - his name is Henrrryyyyyyyy.Glad he proved the haters wrong. Wasn't flawless, but hopefully his spot shouldn't be under question. When he was good, he was MOTM winning good. When not, he was still fairly tight. 8/10
LH Ferguson - Find of the tournament you could say, though we already knew he was good. Can't wait to see what he goes on to do. 9/10
TG Southee - Yeah look, had we actually won the final I would've honestly said the pivotal moment was his safe hands catching as sub. As it stands, he had one chance and he was abysmal. Squad member is almost too good for him. 1/10

 

[TheBrand]

WC ratings?

KS Williamson - WAG. I feel he knows a game right down to the last note, as captain. I thought when Stokes and Buttler were in, he had got it all wrong, as they looked to be taking it away, but he kept calm. Freak deflections upset his plans a bit. Was clearly the standout batsman of the side and guided us through the tournament. 9.5/10
LRPL Taylor - the boss. Was steady and proved a vital knock in the semi, but feel like he should've contributed more as the senior player. Got sawn off in the final, so who knows what could've been. 7/10
JDS Neesham - what a comeback! Was really unsure how he'd go pre tournament but he proved everyone wrong. Contributed more with the ball which I was honestly surprised about. His 97 was gold. Nearly won us the super over. Only criticism was not enough explosive hitting when needed but the tournament was actually fairly slow in that regard. 9/10
C Munro - can we please discard him and let him be a T20 specialist? Though he actually averaged more than Guptill, I feel like his inability to be good affected our best ever ODI openers frame of mind, 3/10
MJ Santner - didn't really get pitches that helped, though contributed when he did. Bowled tight, didn't get a huge amount to do with the bat. 5/10
C de Grandhomme - gets 10/10 for his bowling in the final....but unfortunately overall, I felt he went missing when needed with the bat. 6/10 might be generous.
HM Nicholls - poor nips. Injured, still not at home in his new role, but vital 50 in the final. 5/10
MJ Guptill - 10/10 for that run out tbh. Otherwise a dissappointing tournament for someone who I thought would otherwise gun it. Didn't even really cash in against the minnows. It'd be 2/10 if it weren't for his fielding. 3/10.
TWM Latham - Kept well, finally turned up in the crunch match with the bat. After it seemed like he cracked it down the order, he seemed to be all at sea. Reckon he should go back to opening tbh. 2/10
TA Boult - Thought he'd be our bowler of the tournament, but didn't really eventuate. Nonetheless, 17 @ 28 is nothing to be sneezed at. 7/10
IS Sodhi - didn't get much of a chance. Got tonked by the Aussies, but so did Santner. Not a spinners tournament. 1/10
MJ Henry - his name is Henrrryyyyyyyy.Glad he proved the haters wrong. Wasn't flawless, but hopefully his spot shouldn't be under question. When he was good, he was MOTM winning good. When not, he was still fairly tight. 8/10
LH Ferguson - Find of the tournament you could say, though we already knew he was good. Can't wait to see what he goes on to do. 9/10
TG Southee - Yeah look, had we actually won the final I would've honestly said the pivotal moment was his safe hands catching as sub. As it stands, he had one chance and he was abysmal. Squad member is almost too good for him. 1/10

I think your rating of CdG is a bit rough, he basically won us the game against SA with Kane and also played a much mature innings with Neesham in that Pakistan game. I only expected him to fire in 1 game, but I'll take 2 for sure. Haha.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Surprised Southee hasn't retired from ODIs yet.