South Africa team selection

[StephenZA]

Quinton too of course ?

Yeah of course... did not need a mention obviously!

 

[SeamUp]

Here is an example. And no disrespect to Nkwe or Makweta but I want Boucher, Prince or McKenzie as the next SA coach.

https://city-press.news24.com/Sport/side-entry-proteas-the-future-looks-bright-20190623

With that in mind, here’s a squad of 15 that could do the job in India in 2023:

. Quinton de Kock (Titans, 26)

It’s hard to believe, but De Kock will be 30 in 2023 and going into his third World Cup. Having failed to reach his destructive best in both, the plan should be to surround him with more contributing batsmen.

. Janneman Malan (Cobras, 23)

The sheer weight of his runs in all formats, particularly white ball cricket, must be close to unhinging the door into the Proteas team.

. Temba Bavuma (Lions, 29)

Forget the injured or out-of-form players taken to England by the selectors, the biggest mistake they made was probably not giving Bavuma an extended audition for a top order spot in one-day cricket in the misguided belief he’s not a white ball player.

. Aiden Markram (Titans, 24 – captain)

He may flatter to deceive with his attractive starts typically followed by unfathomable dismissals, but Markram is the real deal and a captain to boot.

. Rassie van der Dussen (Lions, 30)

Having been burnt by some of our mid-30s players, some may have issues with the fact that Van der Dussen will be 34 come the next World Cup. But having started his international career late, he has that Mike Hussey vibe about him.

. Wiaan Mulder (Lions, 21)

“Baby Kallis” was probably a little too young for this World Cup, but he should be ready for India. His ability as a top six batsman should also ease all-rounder Andile Phehlukwayo’s burden.

. Sinethemba Qeshile (Warriors, 20)

In his first full season as a first-class cricketer, Qeshile has shown the kind of calm and temperament sorely lacking at the World Cup at the moment. He’s also already better than average at pacing a run chase.

. Andile Phehlukwayo (Dolphins, 23)

One of the few Proteas who hasn’t been overawed by the World Cup, he should be a beast of a cricketer by the next one.

. Kagiso Rabada (Lions, 24)

The challenge with this once-in-a-generation fast bowler is managing him. The problem with Rabada is that he is as much of a workaholic off the pitch as he is on it. That’s why he’ll always be a risk for injury or burnout.

. Lungi Ngidi (Titans, 23) or Anrich Nortje (Warriors, 25)

The two are bracketed because their careers are punctuated by injury, meaning only one of them can make it to the next World Cup.

. Tabraiz Shamsi (Titans, 29)

With Imran Tahir gone, “Shammo” should revel in being out of his shadow and thrive when given the responsibility as the team’s go-to wrist-spinner.

. Matthew Breetzke (Warriors, 20)

The numbers don’t back his selection yet, but the signs that we have a potentially destructive batsman here were there in the Warriors’ strong runs in domestic white ball cricket.

. Lutho Sipamla (Warriors, 21)

Another youngster who skriks vir niks, the fast bowler should be a handful after a breakthrough season that saw him make his international T20 debut.

. Bjorn Fortuin (Lions, 24)

The left-arm spinner’s been around for a while, but not only has he become one with his talent this season, he’s also emerged as a useful lower-order batsman.

. Bryce Parsons (Lions, 18)

Still at school, the South African Under-19 captain is showing blockbuster promise as a hard-hitting top six batsman and a left-arm spinner.

. Coach: Enoch Nkwe (Lions, 36)

This choice may smack of a bit of flavour of the month-ism given his three titles this season, but Nkwe has the lack of mercury needed to guide a basket case country like ours.

 

[vcs]

Yesterday's chase was really poorly planned out - they didn't lose a big bunch of wickets at any stage upto 35-40 overs and they were still miles behind the RRR by then, which shouldn't happen on that wicket chasing a little above 300. A team really low on confidence.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Woah there, lets not go over the top.

No I'm dead serious, would genuinely take Parnell over Morris as a 50 over cricketer.

Would rather have neither though.

 

[StephenZA]

The crazy thing in the press is that there are people that think Bavuma is going to make a difference to the team. That is the worry and it is a massive one.

I think Bavuma should have been given a better shot for this WC as well as Elgar, think both are underrated LO players. But any future LO's teams should not include them, horse has bolted and all that.

4 years to rebuild and give the youngsters a chance to settle and get into the team. And this can be used to easy some of them into the test team as well.

Prince as coach (heard he has done good things from a man management point of view at Cobras?) and McKenzie brought back in as batting coach.

 

[MrPrez]

No I'm dead serious, would genuinely take Parnell over Morris as a 50 over cricketer.

Would rather have neither though.

Yeah in all honesty I'm with you but man it's a terrible choice.

 

[SeamUp]

I think Bavuma should have been given a better shot for this WC as well as Elgar, think both are underrated LO players. But any future LO's teams should not include them, horse has bolted and all that.

4 years to rebuild and give the youngsters a chance to settle and get into the team. And this can be used to easy some of them into the test team as well.

Prince as coach (heard he has done good things from a man management point of view at Cobras?) and McKenzie brought back in as batting coach.

I really think Elgar and Bavuma could easily be out the test team if things were different. I also have doubts whether de Bruyn will kick on at the highest stage but that test debate is another matter, Rassie goes to India as he seems to have a game plan. Markram is an opener who can bat 3 - find this whole WC really unfair on him.

I can see them going Toyana who will then ask McKenzie to be his batting coach and Gordon Parsons to be his bowling coach. Getting the old crew back together.

Jacques Faul has already said Boucher would be the perfect fit for the next SA coach.

Prince done well and I appreciate the revival of Cobras cricket with youth but still got to win something. I am bit a worried with his comments of taking the gloves away from QdK - I just don't think it will allow the best out of him especially in test cricket.

 

[StephenZA]

I really think Elgar and Bavuma could easily be out the test team if things were different. I also have doubts whether de Bruyn will kick on at the highest stage but that test debate is another matter, Rassie goes to India as he seems to have a game plan. Markram is an opener who can bat 3 - find this whole WC really unfair on him.

I would rather see Rassie over de Bruyn at the moment. I'm also very unsure regards the future of Bavuma and Elgar, but it is difficult to drop them because of the recent LO debacles; they will be given the Indian tour at least same as de Bruyn.

I can see them going Toyana who will then ask McKenzie to be his batting coach and Gordon Parsons to be his bowling coach. Getting the old crew back together.

Jacques Faul has already said Boucher would be the perfect fit for the next SA coach.

Prince done well and I appreciate the revival of Cobras cricket with youth but still got to win something. I am bit a worried with his comments of taking the gloves away from QdK - I just don't think it will allow the best out of him especially in test cricket.

Toyana with McKenzie and Parsons would probably be the best we could hope for... provided Gibson does not stay on!

 

[Bahseph]

I see Morris and Miller being around for the T20WC. It will be very out of character for SA to completely change their team,even if that's exactly what needs to be done.

 

[social]

SA aren’t this bad on paper

Doesn’t look like a happy bunch to me and that’s a leadership issue

 

[StephenZA]

I see Morris and Miller being around for the T20WC. It will be very out of character for SA to completely change their team,even if that's exactly what needs to be done.

Not Morris. Miller maybe, but he needs to really stand up very quickly if even given opportunity again.

 

[StephenZA]

SA aren’t this bad on paper

Doesn’t look like a happy bunch to me and that’s a leadership issue

We are actually. All the problems we have been worrying about have basically come true and the team has buckled under pressure. But there is also a problem at structural level.

 

[Stefan9]

Boucher or Prince as head coach pls and mac back as batting coach.

 

[MrPrez]

We are actually. All the problems we have been worrying about have basically come true and the team has buckled under pressure. But there is also a problem at structural level.

Nah we're definitely not as bad on paper as we have been this world cup.

A batting line-up of

QDK
Amla
Faf
<>
Duminy
Miller

is full of guys who have proven themselves to be quality ODI batsmen. They should be scoring more than they have; however a bunch of them have been slumping recently.

Likewise, a bowling line-up with Rabada, Ngidi, and Tahir should be shredding opponents.

 

[StephenZA]

Nah we're definitely not as bad on paper as we have been this world cup.

A batting line-up of

QDK
Amla
Faf
<>
Duminy
Miller

is full of guys who have proven themselves to be quality ODI batsmen. They should be scoring more than they have; however a bunch of them have been slumping recently.

Likewise, a bowling line-up with Rabada, Ngidi, and Tahir should be shredding opponents.

If we realistic about where these players are now. We have an ageing Amla that has had problems for the last 18+ months who probably should not be there but we had no real other options at this late stage. Duminy and Miller have sporadic up periods padded with runs against minnows. Recently both have been injured and come back and scored sporadically. Duminy and Miller have been inconsistently good their entire careers (not great) and when we had a strong top order were acceptable, but never took a real chance at becoming reliable. I know both have scored alright recently but alright is not good enough with weakness of top order. Markram has been a huge disappointment even though I think he will come right, he is not right yet. Rassie has been an unexpected boon, so I`m a little unsure about his future. I wonder if he may become the next 'Faf'. So we needed all these batsmen to play at the best they have ever played to have a hope in this WC. Not play at their normal level, which is what they have largely done and the results has been predictable.

On the bowling Ngidi is a great world class 3rd seamer. I don't think he should be opening the bowling, maybe given more experience but not yet. This has showed when he bowled as 3rd seamer took wickets in the middle, see he is also a great death bowler. I think his injury is still hampering him as well. A Nortje, Steyn or du Pavillion would have been great with Rabada. Tahir has been phenomenal as always. Andile has done his job perfectly, but was never going to really trouble batsmen and Morris was always a up/down inconsistent liability. And all these bowlers have done as expected, expect maybe Rabada who we hoped will paper over all the cracks and be great, difficult to do when he can just be seen off.

I have left QDK for last because I have concerns at what his role is. When he could play with an in-form Amla he was brilliant, he is however not a player that should be under pressure to maintain his wicket but should be playing naturally aggressive sensible shots all the time. Right now I think he starts his innings without freedom worried about his wicket because of the issues in the team and being told to take 'responsibility', then later when his SR is naturally down starts playing injudicious shots because he knows that part of his job is to be aggressive. So he is stuck between two worlds not playing his natural attacking game without thought. He is not somebody you tell to maintain his wicket, he is not somebody you build a batting order around he is the ace you give freedom to and that is just not happening because of other problems in the team.

So on paper, under realistic conditions of what the team is right now, yes the team are performing poorer than we hoped, but nothing is really unexpected. It is just at a WC when everybody is trying to perform at the best, and big players stand up and the opposition are not resting half the top bowlers suddenly all these known problems come to the fore.

 

[SeamUp]

100% spot on Stephen on QdK. I actually wanted to comment on this. We often talk about QdK showing more responsibility and it is right and I think he has been showing it lately but we never want him to lose his flare and he looks burdened at the moment which is a real shame. We need to start thinking if QdK doesn't get you then the other guy will. If QdK gets out early our batting line up begins to look extremely limited. For me you need to be class to get in as a natural fast scorer who doesn't take risks (Root, Williamson, Kohli, Smith). It is the reason I didn't want Amla there and I flirted with the idea of Reeza being reserve and Markram opening. But Markram himself was left out and not given an extended run opening. So much mixed planning.

So many interviews this WC that the timing has been odd. I see Faf talking about Rassie being a future captain. Markram being asked if he will lead the team post WC.

I never agreed with the approach to this WC. Leaving out preparation. Obviously there seems to be a weight of pressure every world cup after what has gone before even with new guys in. I didn't like the if we lose so what attitude. Choking is the worst that can happen - you can still wake up the next day. Sure that is obvious but you need that drive and determination to want to win every game and get in the battle. After losing embarrassingly v England and Bangladesh you still get Faf saying you expected to lose to the favourites and its not how you start a competition but how you end it. I mean that is so un-South African to me. I know we were under-dogs but seriously ?

 

[SeamUp]

WC stats

Leading run-scorers

1. Quinton De Kock 238 @ 39.66 @ 83.80
2. Rassie vd Dussen 216 @ 54.00 @ 87.44
3. Faf du Plessis 191 @ 38.20 @ 81.27
4. Dave Miller 136 @ 34.00 @ 86.62
5. Andile Phehlukwayo 129 @ 32.25 @ 84.31

Leading wicket-takers

1. Imran Tahir 10 @ 27.90 @ 4.89
2. Chris Morris 9 @ 25.77 @ 5.13
3. Andile Phehlukwayo 8 @ 34.50 @ 5.41
4. Lungi Ngidi 7 @ 30.14 @ 6.39
5. Kagiso Rabda 6 @ 50.83 @ 5.25

 

[StephenZA]

espncricinfo_we-tried-get-kagiso-rabada-not-go-ipl-faf-du-plessis
https://www.sport24.co.za/Cricket/C...adas-world-cup-no-show-hurts-proteas-20190623

Now everybody is talking about how much Rabada bowled and blaming it on IPL; for **** sakes, not that IPL helps but Rabada over-bowling happened because we kept playing him in useless ODI and T20 series. And sadly we where still looking for bowlers that could have been tried out in those series.

And Faf even coming out and saying this is terrible, it comes across as petulant this is not the reason we lost and it feels like shifting blame.

 

[SeamUp]

espncricinfo_we-tried-get-kagiso-rabada-not-go-ipl-faf-du-plessis
https://www.sport24.co.za/Cricket/C...adas-world-cup-no-show-hurts-proteas-20190623

Now everybody is talking about how much Rabada bowled and blaming it on IPL; for **** sakes, not that IPL helps but Rabada over-bowling happened because we kept playing him in useless ODI and T20 series. And sadly we where still looking for bowlers that could have been tried out in those series.

And Faf even coming out and saying this is terrible, it comes across as petulant this is not the reason we lost and it feels like shifting blame.

Did the same with Steyn and the IPL.

Steyn didn't need to go if the world cup was the most important thing.

 

[Borges]

Faf could have set an example by opting out of the IPL himself; and then asking the others to do the same.
I suppose he would argue: I'm a batsman, but these are quick bowlers etc.