Players that are the most overated by CW posters.

[sunilz]

Are you doing this? I think Burgeys logic is that Gavaskar played against depleted attacks in the wsc era. Chappell didn't, because he was playing wsc.

Maybe that list excludes some games due to the bowler requirements. But you will find Gavaskar games where one of those bowlers is playing while the (currently) best bowlers in the country are off fue to wsc. I assume. I haven't checked scorecards.

Greg Chappell never faced WI pace quartret in WI . Gavaskar did . Chappell played only 2 tests against Imran in Pak and averaged 35 . Chappell never played in IND . So he is unproven against ATG pace attack or spin attack overseas .

 

[Daemon]

Please don’t get Burgey started on that long rant about Gavaskar and the myth of him playing the quartet. I must’ve seen him post it at least a dozen times.

 

[sunilz]

Please don’t get Burgey started on that long rant about Gavaskar and the myth of him playing the quartet. I must’ve seen him post it at least a dozen times.

Both played WI pace quartet of various combination between 1979 to 1983 . Gavaskar averaged 41 and Chappell averaged 29 .
All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

 

[Bolo]

Greg Chappell never faced WI pace quartret in WI . Gavaskar did . Chappell played only 2 tests against Imran in Pak and averaged 35 . Chappell never played in IND . So he is unproven against ATG pace attack or spin attack overseas .

Chapell butchered the quartet in WI in wsc. I dont think you can call him unproven in any way against pace. Aus was probably the toughest place to face it in his day

And he averaged over 70 in Pak. His SC record leaves a big question mark. But not to the extent of someone like Lillee- he succeeded in his limited opportunities, and it wasn't as if the sc was as intrinsically challenging for a bat as a quick.

 

[ankitj]

Why does it need to be closed? Sunilz doesnt seem to be deviating from the topic. He's just giving reasons why he thinks Chappel/ponting are overrated.

Yeah, Spark overreacting here. Should give a warning to Burgey for constantly trollish posting though. Sunilz is a better poster. Sticks to topic. Dispels myths with facts.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Sachin and Warne are probably equally overrated by their own countrymen

Yea, there is some truth to that. I think part of the issue that Warne was clearly dominated by India for the entirety of his career, which is not something you can really throw at Sachin. Additionally, Warne is vastly, vastly overratde by the English (who controlled the game to a large part), deservedly so from their standpoint, but the Indians, he was certainly not this fearsome spinner.

There's no doubting Warne was a great spinner, no one is questioning that - and from my time certainly, he was one of the top two spinners (again, no one is doubting that).

Also agree with this . Both equally overrated. Tendulkar particularly in test . He never had a 500 runs series in his career .

Sachin was extremely consistent. Had very good series, great series even - but not monster series.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Always the problem with statistics isn't it? If you dig deep enough and start excluding things or including things or coming up with arbitrary measures, you end up with "Sachin Tendulkar is a moderate upgrade over Mark Waugh". I'm sure there's some set of statistics that will show that phrase to also be true in tests.

 

[Burgey]

It's a problem no matter how you choose to rate players. As was noted earlier, you tend to rate the players (and teams) you've seen higher and to an extent romanticize them. Particularly the players who had an X factor about them. Blokes like Richards, Warne, Wasim, Lara etc. Amazing entertainers as well as cricketers. I remember going to tests in the mid-90s and the effect Warne had on the crowd when he bowled was palpable. Intensity in the ground went up a notch. Was the same with Lillee, and fmd when Lillee bowled to Viv the lid nearly lifted off the joint. These things have an impact too, just as maneuvering stats does.

There's a million meaningless stats you can use to back your POV. Who was the lobotomized poster a few weeks back who said the three Indian quicks took more wickets in a year as a trio than any other in history, which at face value sounded good, until it was pointed out that two bowlers alone took more wickets than they did in 1981?

 

[the big bambino]

Seem to remember Chappell scoring 3 tons v WI in the WI on some wild wickets back in the WSC days. Think he scored a double hundred in Pak too. But yeah if you ignore them but count Sunny’s record against Norbert Phillip and Ian Callen he clearly comes out on top.

 

[sunilz]

It's a problem no matter how you choose to rate players. As was noted earlier, you tend to rate the players (and teams) you've seen higher and to an extent romanticize them. Particularly the players who had an X factor about them. Blokes like Richards, Warne, Wasim, Lara etc. Amazing entertainers as well as cricketers. I remember going to tests in the mid-90s and the effect Warne had on the crowd when he bowled was palpable. Intensity in the ground went up a notch. Was the same with Lillee, and fmd when Lillee bowled to Viv the lid nearly lifted off the joint. These things have an impact too, just as maneuvering stats does.

There's a million meaningless stats you can use to back your POV. Who was the lobotomized poster a few weeks back who said the three Indian quicks took more wickets in a year as a trio than any other in history, which at face value sounded good, until it was pointed out that two bowlers alone took more wickets than they did in 1981?

I hope mods will take action on insult thrown to other posters.

Where did this X-factor argument go when you were comparing Steve Waugh to Tendulkar or Allan Border to Devilliers ? Or you use X-factor argument only when it suits you .

 

[sunilz]

Seem to remember Chappell scoring 3 tons v WI in the WI on some wild wickets back in the WSC days. Think he scored a double hundred in Pak too. But yeah if you ignore them but count Sunny’s record against Norbert Phillip and Ian Callen he clearly comes out on top.

Neither Imran nor qadir played when Chappell scored his double hundred in Pak. Ignore all runs scored by Gavaskar made against WI between 1971 to 80 . Consider only runs scored by Gavaskar and Chappell against WI pace quartret .Gavaskar averages 41 and Chappell 29 .

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;template=results;type=batting;view=series

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...an;template=results;type=allround;view=series

 

[the big bambino]

Of course I get it. Exclude all of Chappell’s hundreds but include Sunny’s runs against the fearsome Dowe, vanburn holder Norbert Phillip and some other random quartet and sunny bosses it. No doubt. We agree.

 

[Burgey]

Oh, so it was sunilz? There's a surprise.

And what is he ****ing dribbling about now? I'm saying a player having an X factor is something which effects how people rate players against each other. I'm not saying whether it's a valid or an invalid factor in rating them. I''m not even saying it's something which they consciously do. I'm simply saying it happens. FMD sunilz. Settle down mate. You're wound up like a thousand day clock about all this. Turn what's left of your mind to something important ffs, if you can.

 

[sunilz]

Of course I get it. Exclude all of Chappell’s hundreds but include Sunny’s runs against the fearsome Dowe, vanburn holder Norbert Phillip and some other random quartet and sunny bosses it. No doubt. We agree.

Looks like some one can't even click the link and check the bowling attack faced .

 

[sunilz]

Oh, so it was sunilz? There's a surprise.

And what is he ****ing dribbling about now? I'm saying a player having an X factor is something which effects how people rate players against each other. I'm not saying whether it's a valid or an invalid factor in rating them. I''m not even saying it's something which they consciously do. I'm simply saying it happens. FMD sunilz. Settle down mate. You're wound up like a thousand day clock about all this. Turn what's left of your mind to something important ffs, if you can.

I hope you are a better lawyer than you are a poster because most of your argument don't make sense.

 

[TheJediBrah]

sunilz is growing on me tbh

 

[jimmy101]

C'arn sunilz.

 

[Burgey]

sunilz, I get to listen to arguments these days, rather than make them.

It's probably why I find yours so terrible.

I've got to say, in 12 and a half years of posting on here (yeah, I know), I reckon you're flat out the worst CC poster I've encountered. I'm limiting that to CC only, because OT still has Ikki. You out-Cevno Cevno, unless of course you're him under another name. You jump at shadows, post inanities in the guise of serious analysis and take anyone disagreeing with you as a personal insult. I want to say "You're better than this", but I genuinely doubt you are.

 

[the big bambino]

Looks like some one can't even click the link and check the bowling attack faced .

Can do that. I’m just filling in the bits you conveniently leave out. You know, the stuff that isn’t cherry picked.

Say wasn’t that 236 in a dead rubber game? On a dead pitch? Against a WI team already 3 blot up and thinking of home? Weren’t we just counting Overseas tests? When series were still live? And wasn’t it a point of distinction in Sunny’s favour that he opened against the new ball. Well why did he shirk his job and bat down the order in that game.

Look I’m fully on board with Sunny the great. Well at least I was until I saw your links. Looks like he was just a myth. Stop it please. I feel a little disillusioned now.

 

[ankitj]

sunilz has a point. Gavaskar scored:

147 against Marshall, Holding, Garner, Roberts
121 against Marshall, Holding
90 against Marshall, Holding
236 against Marshall, Holding, Roberts

Now it's true that Gavaskar's overall average and century count against West Indies does flatter him a bit. But which other batsmen has these many decent knocks to show for against the top West Indian bowlers. Since joining CW, I might have bought into the myth on Gavaskar not being as good against real West Indian pacers while never attempted to compare with others of his generation.

Until sunilz came along.