ODI ATG XIs

[Prince EWS]

The weird thing for me with an ODI ATG XI is that I rate Pollock as the best ODI player of all time and yet probably wouldn't actually select him in such a team. I think on average he'd improve a cross section of every ODI in history the most which is my definition of "best player", but if I was picking a best eleven he'd probably just miss out. Flintoff is another who I'd rate in the top six or so and also likely not find a place for.

 

[Victor Ian]

Huge **** up aside, I think there was something to the point I made about an all time great team not being bowled out. I think any combination of bowlers, when picking for best strike rates alone, only gets a team 9 down on average - that is for all teams, minnows included. Against an all time great team, I'd very much expect the best bowlers to only get to about 6 or 7 down. You really can afford to have Murali, McGrath and Garner in a team. Filling it with Hadlee, Pollock and Warne because of batting would be wasted if they are being picked on batting prowess. You can pick them for other reasons, but I think trying to strengthen your tail would only come into play rarely.

With Tendulkar, Viv, Kohli, DeVillers + 3 other ATG, you really have to stop them scoring, rather than getting them out, because most times, that isn't going to happen, and 'most times' wins ATG series'.

 

[Victor Ian]

The weird thing for me with an ODI ATG XI is that I rate Pollock as the best ODI player of all time and yet probably wouldn't actually select him in such a team. I think on average he'd improve a cross section of every ODI in history the most which is my definition of "best player", but if I was picking a best eleven he'd probably just miss out. Flintoff is another who I'd rate in the top six or so and also likely not find a place for.

Brilliant explanation of the Pollock situation. I revere him immensely and had never figured out why I don't pick him in all time 11.

 

[Red]

There were only 17 times that McGrath went for more than 50 runs in an innings in ODI. From 248 innings.

And no one ever truly got a hold of him. Hardly ever went for much more than 50 on those occasions that he did, and the very worst was only 72 on one occasion (a big scoring game vs NZ that McGrath was still the best performed pacer from either team in, and Aust won)

He was just the master.

 

[stephen]

In an AT side you need a decent batsman at 8 but really, with Bevan or Dhoni in the side you don't need much more than that.

I used to think that batting deep was important until I looked at the actual stats. Most number 9s will face two overs or less in each innings. It's not worth sacrificing bowling quality for that.

 

[jimmy101]

I personally consider McGrath to be a lock. The man himself said that he considered going for more than 30 runs when he bowled to be a failure. That's some incredible self-discipline.

 

[TheJediBrah]

There were only 17 times that McGrath went for more than 50 runs in an innings in ODI. From 248 innings.

And no one ever truly got a hold of him.

Razzaq says hi

very true though. The locks for me are McGrath, Kohli & Tendulkar. Everyone else is negotiable. Never saw Viv.

 

[jimmy101]

Razzaq says hi

Oh man, that was one of the greatest things to happen on a cricket field ever. Lest we forget.

 

[mr_mister]

Without looking I'll assume it's the five fours in an over. Great moment

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

By replacing any of them with McGrath (except Garner who I view as on par with Pidge)

1. Kapil - AR
2. Saqlain - Spinner
3. McGrath > Akram = easily disputable
4. McGrath a guaranteed better bowler than Hadlee = disputable ( Also makes batting weaker)

 

[jimmy101]

McGrath a guaranteed better bowler than Hadlee

Never.

Ever, ever, ever.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

There were only 17 times that McGrath went for more than 50 runs in an innings in ODI. From 248 innings.

And no one ever truly got a hold of him. Hardly ever went for much more than 50 on those occasions that he did, and the very worst was only 72 on one occasion (a big scoring game vs NZ that McGrath was still the best performed pacer from either team in, and Aust won)

He was just the master.

RPO - 5 or more

Hadlee - 10 times from 115 matches
McGrath - 55 from 250

But , that's ok. McGrath played in a more batting friendly era.

 

[trundler]

Why dilute an ATXI by having a kiwi in it

 

[stephen]

Why dilute an ATXI by having a kiwi in it

He's there to get us to the semi final.

 

[ankitj]

The weird thing for me with an ODI ATG XI is that I rate Pollock as the best ODI player of all time and yet probably wouldn't actually select him in such a team. I think on average he'd improve a cross section of every ODI in history the most which is my definition of "best player", but if I was picking a best eleven he'd probably just miss out. Flintoff is another who I'd rate in the top six or so and also likely not find a place for.

Glad to see you rate Pollock so highly. Best ODI player is a stretch IMO but he is such a superb ODI bowler and then averages 26+ with bat. Incredibly valuable. Kapil makes lot of ODI XI but Pollock beats him on both batting and bowling average, and once you adjust for era he comes out top on bowling ER too. Kapil better striker with bat though.

Like you, I will still not be able to pick him in ODI all time XI. Once I have picked my 6 best batsmen and 1 all-rounder, I pick 4 best bowlers and completely ignore additional value from batting which is where Pollock loses out to McGrath-Akram-Garner-Murali which is the real foursome that is near impossible to improve. (I like all my main 4 bowlers to have ER below 4.0 )

 

[ankitj]

Oh man, that was one of the greatest things to happen on a cricket field ever. Lest we forget.

at the way Razzaq runs away after blocking the 6th ball back to McGrath.

 

[Zinzan]

Dhoni must be just about close to playing himself out of ATG XI contention, specially if he bombs in this year's WC

Only if one was short-sighted enough to factor when he was well past his peak, as opposed to how good he was for more than a decade between 04' & '15.

Guess it's the same argument for those who penalise Tendulkar & Ponting for playing Tests below their respective best in their twilight years.

 

[Zinzan]

Plenty are rated 'highly enough' yes, but were talking all time XIs here.Viv and Sachin would be neck a neck for the number 2 spot after Bradman imo instead of a 10 way tie with other greats if we take away their final 3 years.

And Ponting would be heads and shoulders clear of Border, Waugh and Chappell as Australia's number 2 if we forget his final 3 years

I think Dhoni has dropped enough for Bevan to be considered a better ODI bat. The thing with Dhoni is he's Bevan and Gilchrist combined which helps his cause.

But if he continues to strike at 70 for 20-30 more matches I'd say he's played himself out of contention

Nah, for an all-time ODI XI, I'd much rather open with Jayasuriya instead of Gilchrist & have Dhoni in the middle order over Bevan. It's tough on Bevan, but he's not the sort of player to add much to an All-time XI in my opinion.... similar to Kallis not making most people's all-time Test side, in spite of his almost freakish record.

 

[Zinzan]

Tendulkar
Dev
Viv
Kohli
DeVilliers
Symonds
Klusener
Dhoni
Hadlee
Pollock
Warne


Long shot putting Dev as opener, but why not? I figure his style works anywhere. The same logic to put Gilchrist as opener to smash the ball into submission would work for Dev and his amazing smile would put bowlers off as they run in to get him . Dhoni moves around depending on the situation. Warne only in the team over Brad Hogg because of his ability to step up when required.

Maybe I should have McGrath instead of Pollock. But then I have a bunny in the team.

Apart from Murali (quite clearly better white-ball bowler than Warne, surprised anyone would think otherwise) and Flintoff over Symonds, I like it.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Glad to see you rate Pollock so highly. Best ODI player is a stretch IMO but he is such a superb ODI bowler and then averages 26+ with bat. Incredibly valuable. Kapil makes lot of ODI XI but Pollock beats him on both batting and bowling average, and once you adjust for era he comes out top on bowling ER too. Kapil better striker with bat though.

Like you, I will still not be able to pick him in ODI all time XI. Once I have picked my 6 best batsmen and 1 all-rounder, I pick 4 best bowlers and completely ignore additional value from batting which is where Pollock loses out to McGrath-Akram-Garner-Murali which is the real foursome that is near impossible to improve. (I like all my main 4 bowlers to have ER below 4.0 )

Kallis is a popular choice in AT 11s.

In Reality , there were 2 better allrounders in his own team. Pollock and Klusner.

Kapil
Hadlee
Jayasoorya
Pollock
Klusner
Watson
Symonds
Imran
Botham
Flintoff

All better than Kallis